Ep. 73: "Music NFTs" - the music industry and web3 with Ladidai

[00:00] Wow, we went dark and mean for this edition of Draft Tweets. [00:05] Welcome to Boys Club Interviews. This is a show where we bring on people much smarter than us to talk about the new internet. I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. The Boys Club podcast? No. Just Boys Club. [00:22] Hey! Welcome to Boys Club Podcast Interviews. We are here talking about music NFTs today. [00:36] We are. We took a left turn down music NFT lane and in doing so had a conversation about how they actually shouldn't be called music NFTs, which I think is one of my big takeaways from the conversation that we had. I've been thinking a lot about nomenclature. [00:52] because of friends.tech, because all friends.tech is, is social tokens. [00:57] And it's just a different way of positioning and naming it. So that has got me thinking a lot about how important it is [01:04] What you call things. [01:06] What you call it really matters. Today's podcast guest, you're in for a treat. We had Lottie Day on. So... [01:14] I want to tell just a quick story about how I first came across her and her writing. So just some background on her. She's a songwriter. She's a manager. She manages this artist. She calls a web 2.5 artist. This artist called TK. They do a lot of, I'm going to call it music NFT stuff for lack of a better phrase. She is also a member of the very prestigious recording academy that does the Grammys. She works at Campfire, which is a community for music creatives.

[01:44] where she offers very practical career advice to rising music and media professionals. She's like really in this world of music, music industry. So that's some background on her. I came into her through this tweet that she wrote. Remember when Justin Bieber... [02:00] Sold his catalog. Yes. For... [02:03] $200 million. Yes. There was all these takes flying around. Lots of chatter. [02:08] Lots of chatter, lots of noise. Was that too much? Was it too little? And is it crazy to that he was able to sell? So ton of takes that were happening around this time. She had a tweet that said. [02:20] Imagine owning 15% of a depreciating asset. [02:24] and receiving 200 million cash in exchange for it before you're 30. [02:28] real life goals. And I thought, wow, wow, [02:32] That is both [02:33] a really balanced take, a deeply informed take, [02:38] And also a really cool sort of celebratory, like optimistic. Cool. And so that's how I first came across it. [02:44] I loved it too. Yeah. So we've been wanting to talk music for a while. She was the perfect guest to do so. And... [02:52] here we are here we are it's great interview we talk about [02:56] the ups and downs a very balanced look at what's possible with new technologies and with the creative industry of musicians which she made the great point that is always sort of [03:08] The first port of call for creative work and emerging technology is usually music. And so it was a great conversation and I hope you like it. Hey, Natasha, if someone wants to get into crypto or is looking for a better way to trade, where should they go? Oh, Dina, I'm so glad you asked. The place to be is Kraken. It's more than a crypto platform. Kraken is your bridge to the new world of finance.

[03:38] From degen to day trader, first timer to full timer, make your trades in just a few clicks. Go to kraken.com backslash boys club, sign up in just a few minutes, and you can even get started with as little as $10. We love you, Kraken. [03:51] On today's show we have Lottie Day. Lottie, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. I see you as very much [04:02] the voice around the music industry and where it meets [04:07] emerging tech generally. I think that that definitely is Web3 and crypto, but I know that you do a lot of writing and talking around [04:16] AI and music as well. So we're really excited to have you on the show to just have sort of a general conversation around what's happening in the music industry, how it's [04:24] responding or not responding to these various trends and themes that we're seeing coming through and these technologies that we all love. So we're excited to have that conversation with you today. Amazing. So we want to jump right in. [04:36] with kind of a leading question, but I'm curious what comes to mind for you when I say [04:41] music NFTs. [04:42] What's the first thing that pops into your head? Music NFTs. The first thing that comes to mind, honestly, is... [04:51] change because a lot of things need to change regarding what's happening there. [04:55] with mass adoption and whatnot. So that's the very first thing. What do you think are some of the things that need to evolve in music NFT landscape? [05:03] One, the name. Okay, starting from the top. Yeah, I'm someone who comes from the traditional music industry, and I'm still very active in the traditional space. But essentially, music in and of itself and things surrounding the music industry are like very cool, and everybody wants to be involved with it, yada, yada, yada. And so like,

[05:24] My main gripe with music NFTs is that I felt it put the technology at the forefront as opposed to the experience. And that's a really bad way to lead when it comes to music. Because so much of what fans really enjoy and what artists really enjoy is tied to... [05:39] music experiences, artist-fan connection, things of that nature. So I really felt like the [05:45] overarching [05:46] points was missed. There was such a great opportunity there to really bridge the gap. And I think when it comes to emerging tech [05:53] Music is one of the first places that people go to be able to go to the next level of things. And the ball is just dropped. Totally. For the listener, could you just give like a really quick definition of what music NFTs are? [06:06] Yes. So essentially music NFTs are music, usually like an audio file or an MP3 of sorts or a wave file that's on chain. [06:16] On-chain meaning it's on the blockchain, so it's a tokenized asset of music. And for some artists that... [06:25] means that you can only listen to it if you've minted it? And for some artists, does that mean... [06:31] It's open edition, but you pay a Ethereum or something in order to own it and collect it. [06:37] Yeah, so the definition that I like best in regards to this, which applies to most music NFTs, is that it's free to listen. [06:45] expensive to own. So essentially, pretty much any music entity can be accessed [06:51] to listen to, whether it's Oolala or Spinamp, any of those players. But in terms of actually owning it and having it in your wallet and having access to any of the utility, you have to mint it or purchase it. Okay. What is a version of...

[07:06] I mean, we're calling it music entities now for lack of a better term. So if you have an alternative phrase that we can use to reference this, that'd be useful. But when you think about that as like a thing, what do you think the potential is? So I think there actually are a couple of platforms that are working towards or have in a lot of ways achieved what I think is the idealized way that. [07:29] music NFT should be presented to the world. There's one platform I like called Even. Their website is even.biz. [07:35] and [07:37] They don't even mention the word NFT or anything like that in their verbiage, like down to the marketing. It's just like, hey, this is some music. You can pay what you want to download it. And then if you pay a certain amount, then you can have access to like meet and greets and merch and things like that. And literally that is the whole point. Yeah. Yeah. [07:56] That is the whole point. So in an ideal world, it would just be called music, right? Because since when has music ever really been tied to the medium? Like, yes, we do have CDs and vinyls and digital downloads and whatnot. But at the end of the day, it's like, it's just music. [08:15] the medium in and of itself doesn't really matter. It's about the access that comes with it. I'd love to hear from you some of the people that you [08:22] see [08:23] doing a really good job using this medium and that are totally crushing it and have sort of a unique, impactful way of utilizing this technology to [08:32] further their artist project and to engage their fans and do all of the things that I think are the ideal use case for this type of medium.

[08:42] Yeah, for sure. So I had mentioned even and one of the flagship artists for that platform, and he's actually also a co-owner and the platform, I believe, is LaRussell. He's someone who's a really dope independent artist. And he's always been, I think, [08:57] in a lot of ways, a great [09:00] role model to other independent artists who are looking to essentially [09:04] monetize their music sustainably [09:07] I think it's so great what he's been doing. And just the fact that, again, he made it really easy for his fans to enter Web3 because they didn't necessarily know. Yeah. [09:17] The other cool thing that he had done with that is that I believe they also had access to like a certain portion of like streaming royalties, which is cool. And we've seen like other platforms exercise that as well, like Royal with the Nas drop. And again, just like the meet and greets or maybe they get some kind of exclusive merch and maybe they get, you know, VIP ticket access. [09:37] that fans want [09:40] It's access. It's like, how can I get closer to this artist that I'm a fan of? And the other cool thing with that particular platform is that there's like a chat feature [09:48] on the website. So it's anyone who purchases the music can also get access to talking to the artist. So stuff like that. It's so easy when you think about it. At its core, [09:58] Music is about experiences and it's about strengthening the artist fan connection. I think that this is a really... [10:04] beautiful way to be looking at and evaluating this technology and thinking about like, how is it in service to the greater art, right? It's not about the music NFT in and of itself. It's about like, how can it be make a deeper connection with your fans or potentially monetize? I mean, I think that solving for the pain point around artists,

[10:25] with monetizing their work is obviously hugely important, but kind of what I'm hearing you talk to is a little bit more around like, [10:33] strengthening those ties and loyalty and, [10:36] Does that check out for you? [10:38] I'm like, yeah, I think one thing that I've always gotten stuck on when it comes to music NFTs is [10:45] that the use case that you're hearing about most often is collecting. [10:50] And I think that there are people that collect things totally. I'm personally not someone who collects things. And so I'm really excited about how you're painting this world, which is [11:00] moving past collecting [11:02] What do you think it's going to take to see it at scale? [11:05] Yeah, you know, a bit of a lie or a misconception maybe that was kind of sold early on is that [11:13] Folks who collect music NFTs are music fans, and in reality, [11:19] The majority of them are not. [11:21] They're speculating. They're speculators. Exactly. So your average collector is someone who is more well versed in what happens in DeFi than they are in music. Right. [11:34] So the artist has to make a choice. Right. It's like, what are your motivations? Do you want collectors or do you want fans? And the interesting thing about the. [11:43] Web3 music space in particular is that a lot of artists are actually native to Web3. So there are many people who are like, I had never been to a studio or had never gone on tour. I had never even released music prior to Web3, right? So it's like,

[11:56] It's about understanding what are your goals. Do you want collectors? Do you want fans? Do you want both? And if so, you find the platform that makes that easiest or you create whatever site that makes that easiest for you to be able to. [12:11] reach those people, [12:12] and then you execute that accordingly. [12:16] One thing as boys club has thought about, where do we, [12:20] put our energy and time towards and do we put that towards [12:24] collectibles or digital collectibles or on-chain experiences. And what we've often come back to is [12:30] right now on chain... [12:32] engagement with our community is a great way to deepen the [12:37] a relationship with our thousand true fans. And that's a really powerful thing to do. That is not, with the tool set we have right now, a great way for [12:47] growth and exposure and expansion of boys club into the, [12:52] new audiences and new communities outside of [12:56] sort of our core community. And I can imagine that it's similar for a lot of musical artists, where there's a willingness for their truest and deepest fans to find new ways to engage and want access to all of these perks that are a part of the experience of minting. [13:14] But for many artists, I think they're looking for broader ways to [13:18] get out there for people to learn about them for that type of growth in their artist project. And so similarly to what you're saying, there's knowing what your stack is good for and knowing who

[13:29] is engaging with that stack, I think, is really important to the success of [13:32] for anybody, whether it's a community or an artist. Yeah, exactly. I'd love to talk a little bit about your experience coming from traditional music industry. I know very little about the music industry. So I would love to better understand like, [13:44] what you think maybe their take is behind closed doors. Like, how are they looking at this emerging tech and are they excited about it? Are they interested? Are they like, this is going to be jaded? There's a trend. Like, what's the sort of sentiment in more traditional circles? [14:00] Yeah, so when it comes to the traditional music industry, especially label side, they've dabbled in Web3. The thing with the music industry traditionally is that when it comes to emerging technology, they're not necessarily very quick to embrace it. And that was... [14:18] that caused a lot of interesting effects in terms of even prior to all this, like with the streaming era and how that affected the entire music ecosystem. [14:28] Okay. [14:29] That was a huge wake-up call, right? So then when the opportunity came with Web3 and AI and these other types of technology, they were definitely... [14:37] a lot faster to help them board but you have to understand that with labels and whatnot [14:43] There are so many [14:45] levels, just approvals with things. And just think of anything as establishment. It's not going to be overnight, as it might be with an independent artist that doesn't really have as much to lose. [14:55] Wherever there's an opportunity, [14:57] to make money [14:59] Trust me, the traditional music industry is paying close attention. But at the same time, it's about opportunity cost, right? It's like, how much of your traditional consumer base are you willing to alienate just in order to embrace emerging tech? So the ways that they tend to do it is in such a way that's a lot more palatable and a lot less experimental.

[15:21] than a lot of independent artists would or artists that are in the traditional web free space. But trust me, they're tapped in. Nice. Yeah. Do you feel like the word NFT is toxic in those rooms? Yeah, because here's the thing, right? But essentially, it's about how can we as the label adopt this in such a way that we can present it to artists and to their fans in such a way that they're going to be comfortable? [15:48] being involved with what's happening. So I think that's why [15:51] For the most part, [15:53] The term NFT didn't really land. [15:57] And that's why we didn't see too much of the major label system embracing that, because they're watching. They're still watching on social media how people are reacting. You know, they're watching how people on Twitter and Instagram are like, I want nothing to do with this or how people just in everyday life are like, I don't even know what this is. Right. So it's like. [16:17] Crypto is not cool. [16:19] NFTs aren't sexy. No offense. Just breaking it down. I love it. It's almost jarringly opposed to everything that's happening in the world of music and celebrity. Oh, man. What I'm present to in hearing you talk is just how much we in the Web3 and crypto industry have been talking to ourselves. And you have this perspective that's like, I'm look, I'm straddling into this other world, too. And they don't give a fuck. [16:49] Okay. [16:49] I saw that Spotify was playing around with token-gated playlists,

[16:54] Yeah. What are your thoughts? Give us some hot takes. [16:57] I was not surprised to see them enter the ring. Granted, no offense, it did not make any noise. There was little to no impact. Again, like, [17:06] Just most listeners don't care. Like, OK, talking to the playlist. Like, what does that mean? What does that do? [17:15] You know, and I commend them for trying, but there's no real impact with any of that. [17:20] Okay, so... [17:22] hear you, bearish on a lot of what's happening in this domain, but you're here. Like, we're having this conversation. Like, what are you excited about when it comes to, maybe it's individuals, creators, artists, or platforms? Like, what gets you excited? I think the thing that excites me most [17:40] about Web3 and emerging technology in general, it's just I do think that there is a need for blockchain technology in terms of the transparency, in terms of the speed of transactions. It's just like, I look at all of the issues that [17:54] have been plaguing creatives in the music industry and we also see in tv film right with like sag after strikes and wga strike the lack of transparency i had no idea that these movies for instance were watched hundreds and thousands of hours worth of time and that the actors are getting 30 cent checks every quarter like whoa i remember snoop dogg was doing a press conference and he was just like where is the money whether it's a dsp or some other kind of streaming service

[18:24] - Yes. [18:25] Where is the money? There's so much confusion and so little transparency when it comes to [18:30] the payments, how any of this stuff works, royalties, any of it. [18:35] for creators and the opportunity that was presented with blockchain where it's like [18:41] You can see exactly who bought this and for how much and for when they did and what the fee was and where it started and where it ended. They're telling me all these middlemen and all these hoops that we have to jump through. We don't even have to go through that for real. The technology literally exists. [18:56] Currently, [18:57] where there could be systems in place where people can be paid on time, know exactly how much they're getting, know exactly where it came from, know exactly what the fees are, [19:07] Hello? And I was having this discussion just this past week because people are fed up, fed up. You know, it's artists, it's songwriters, it's producers, engineers, it's managers. It's just like people are like, [19:22] What do we have to do to be able to make it clear [19:26] when these deadlines are supposed to happen, when this money is supposed to come in, how much money I'm supposed to be getting, because it's just it's so frustrating. And it's been like that. [19:34] for decades. - In this world, do you think that there is a role for the traditional label? [19:40] Ooh, it's getting spicy. Listen, at the end of the day, [19:46] Some of the most iconic artists that we all love and that we all listen to, whether it's, you know, Drake, Beyonce and even deceased artists like Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston.

[19:57] they're all a part of [20:00] the major label and publisher system and it's unlikely that they ever will not be a part of the major label and publisher system. [20:07] There have been and there still are opportunities for things to change and revamp. You know, we've seen all types of different [20:17] deals that weren't even thought of. [20:20] five years ago, 10 years ago, etc. Whether it's licensing or with artists retaining their masters and so on and so forth. [20:28] I do think that there's still a place... [20:31] But at the end of the day, as it is for anything, it's about opportunity costs and it's about leverage, right? It's like... [20:39] You can sign a traditional 360 label deal, but what's the opportunity cost for that? What levers do you have walking into that? And then you have artists that are coming in who are like, [20:51] actually, I've done this, that, and a third on my own. This is what I know I can do. What can you do for me? And they come in with a lot more power, right? So there's a place for them for sure. I don't necessarily believe that [21:04] it is necessary or even beneficial to eradicate labels and publishers. I think it's more so about [21:12] making that relationship more symbiotic as time goes on. [21:17] and seeing what changes can be made, whether it's in the infrastructure and legislation and education, et cetera, et cetera. [21:25] That was a very diplomatic answer.

[21:29] Okay, I want to ask a few questions related to AI. AI used to mean Allen Iverson, so it's really funny when it doesn't. [21:39] So a few months ago, obviously, Grimes put out this tweet. It had this whole snowball effect for her open sourcing content. [21:48] her voice and people taking her voice and making synthetic songs and developments with it. And I think there's a lot of questions to be asked around the, [21:59] trademark and ip and all of those questions and then there's questions to ask about [22:04] deep fakes and the danger of what can happen when there are people with bad intentions. And now that the dust has sort of settled on the hype of that comment and that tweet and all the cascading effect that happened, what do you think [22:21] were left with like where do you really think this type of music development is going to go you know i'm really proud of grimes i've been a fan of hers for a while i think she is a creative genius and and her business partner dada is also incredible too [22:36] I'm really happy to see that it is her who's kind of at the [22:42] forefront and center of this conversation, especially because at first, [22:47] When the hype of AI music kind of entered the ring, it was in relation to [22:52] An example that wasn't really ideal with the AI Drake, clearly they modeled this after Drake's vocals, The Weeknd's vocals. They have Metro Boomin's exact tag. These are all the things that, as amusing as it might have been, we don't want.

[23:07] in this space, right, because [23:08] Me personally, and I think this is true for a lot of people who care about [23:12] creatives. [23:14] it really needs to be artist first. [23:17] All these decisions need to be artist-centered. So in terms of protecting IP, [23:23] ensuring that there's proper credit and compensation. And still, a lot of these things are kind of murky. Because when we first really got excited about AI, [23:34] It was really in relation to what was happening, like mid-journey and whatnot. And then you have like all these artists filing like class action lawsuits about my art was used in the modeling of this. And it's like. [23:44] There currently doesn't exist a way to even trace back that kind of stuff. But I really, again, love that she was [23:51] the face and the voice of this because she presented a really equitable and reasonable term. She was like, okay, like you can use my voice. This is the particular... [24:01] website where everything can be modeled after and [24:05] it's a 50-50 split, and for the most part, as long as I approve the lyrical content and whatever, then it's approved to be released. And obviously, there's still some kinks we worked out with that, but... [24:16] I just thought it was so brave that she was just like... [24:19] I volunteer a tribute. [24:22] And that honestly is so her because she's someone who's always been really early with stuff. But... [24:27] I really think that she's going to go down in the history books as, okay, this is the way, like, this is how we should go about things. And I'm interested in seeing...

[24:38] What kind of legislation is going to come out of that or how [24:42] you know, label deals or publisher deals are going to change based off of all that. We've seen even like the major labels starting to embrace AI more and having their own partnerships. So, [24:52] There's still a lot of room for experimentation. [24:56] And of course, we're looking to see what's going to be the first AI generated song to really go mainstream, right? Where it's going to be like a theme song for a popular show or scored in a film or debut top 100 on Billboard. [25:11] We're looking for those kinds of use cases, right, to kind of say like, "Okay, [25:16] This is something that has, you know, [25:18] and the opportunity to really be something major. [25:22] Yeah, I that resonates with me. I've been [25:25] during my TikTok time at night, I've been coming across a lot of really dumb... [25:31] plankton covers rolling in the d like things where it's like taking and having them cover these iconic songs which is you know hilarious when you're on tiktok and you're like this is why and they like maybe we'll have some funny visual but it's kitschy right that's not right it's not i'm not gonna go and it's not art by yeah it's not it's not art well i mean maybe it's art for someone i don't want to judge what art is or isn't but it's not getting [26:01] really struck by [26:02] It had this moment of huge... [26:05] hype when the [26:07] the Drake and the weekend song and then Grimes fast follow on that. And now,

[26:11] I'm like seeing these weird AI deep fake kind of covers. I think there were some really [26:16] great songs that came out of Grimes' experiment, but I'm wondering where the like [26:21] deep creativity is and [26:24] I'm curious if you're seeing it yet. [26:26] So not to plug, but my artist TK actually did like a similar thing where he launched an AI generative model with kits. [26:36] which is entering that space and doing some really cool things. [26:40] I think there may be potentially more opportunity with even smaller independent talent. I feel like there's probably a lot of cool stuff and really great stuff that is happening. It just hasn't really reached the forefront yet. How do we get the stuff from like [26:55] the smaller indie artists that's actually really good to the masses, but also how do we get [27:01] the stuff from like the bigger artists that have the following to, [27:05] really kind of resonate and stick. We're still in the novelty era of it. And like you said, like we have the covers and stuff happening on TikTok. And it's really funny seeing like the fans like eat that stuff up. [27:20] It's going to be interesting to see any of these mainstream artists. Let's see Drake really leverage AI in a cool way and have it hit. If he released a song and it goes top 10, he goes, "Oh, by the way, that was AI Drake." I think it's one of those things, again, where [27:39] The technology doesn't necessarily need to be at the forefront. And whenever it's marketed or pushed in such a way where it's like, look, this is an AI song. Do people actually care? When something comes on a playlist, it comes on a radio. It's like nobody cares. Oh, does it sound good? Does it resonate? So let music do what it's supposed to do and let all the other stuff kind of come after that. Okay, I want to close with hearing about some of your work. You just worked with Tidal on the 50 Years of Hip Hop campaign. And I would love for you to tell us about that.

[28:09] Yeah, that was such a cool conversation. Shout out to Tidal, who is... [28:14] They're one of my favorite music tech companies because, again, when I [28:18] say we need to focus more on [28:21] entities that are artist first. Tidal is an incredible example of that. And they have their Tidal Rising program where they focus a lot on independent talent especially. But essentially that particular conversation that was featuring Flo Millie, [28:35] Styles P. and Ruben Vincent was really talking about [28:39] the intersection of artistry and entrepreneurship, and how that's something that's been really pivotal [28:44] and hip hop over the course of the past 50 years. [28:47] And of course, just seeing how everything's been changing from decade to decade, right? Starting out, you know, in the CD era to streaming, to digital downloads. It's a whole hosh posh of things, TikTok. But yeah, that conversation was so great. And I really hope that it... [29:05] inspires more conversations because we're in an era where [29:09] artists are more entrepreneurial than ever, right? It's like, yes, they can partner with labels and publishers, but a lot of them don't necessarily have to, and a lot of them opt against doing that because [29:19] they have the opportunity to have their own platforms and to do things their own way. And so just having that entrepreneurial spirit is really important. And a lot of that stems from the awesome things that are happening in hip hop and that, of course, [29:32] permeates into every other aspect of the music industry. [29:35] I love that framing of artists as entrepreneurs because I think it's,

[29:40] it really acknowledges the like full spectrum of work that an independent artist does it's not just [29:48] create... [29:49] work. It's the whole rest of it as well. And so, yeah, I think it's just, it's a really cool way to look at and congratulations on the collab. It sounds awesome. Thanks. Yeah. Super fun. Well, thank you so much for, for coming on. Thanks for having me guys. This was a great conversation. [30:06] Kraken is a crypto OG. They have more than 10 million clients around the world that trust them with their crypto needs. They're one of the largest crypto platforms out there with some [30:19] easy that your funds and your privacy are safe for the keeping. And if you need help along the way, as we all do sometimes, Kraken's award-winning client support team is available 24-7 every day of the year. This is a true story. I've actually hit them up a few times with very dumb questions about our account, and they were so nice and so patient. It just takes a few minutes to get started today at kraken.com backslash boys club. [30:43] Hi. Hi. Is it time for some draft tweets? Let's do some draft tweets. I have some tweets that were drafted in rage. Oh, rage tweets. I have a rage tweet. [30:55] Excellent. Okay, let's hear it. Okay, I feel like I will read the tweet. It's not funny. So we're in a different genre. Okay. [31:03] It's angry. It's angry. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. Okay. [31:09] People ask me sometimes, why don't I bring my kids when I travel for work? It'll be so fun. Well, babe, I'd love to, but I'm not rich. Only rich moms with a travel nanny or a dude can bring kids to things as cute accessories. Don't at me.

[31:24] Here's the background. Tell me. I saw... [31:28] At a conference that we went to recently. I'm not going to say what conferences was and I'm not going to say who the dude was, but there was a dude who did some virtuous posting on social media and, [31:40] Because he had brought his kid to the conference. Yeah. [31:43] And it was a photo of him and his kid. [31:45] cute at the conference and it was like it was it was like I mean the subtext was like he was like being a dad is cool and I get to travel with my kids whatever I actually don't know what the tweet was but the subtext of an image like that is [32:02] um, [32:03] Aren't I great? Yes. Yes. Aren't I a great dad? Yeah. Some, some that's like kind of embedded in within it. And I was thinking to myself, [32:15] Why am I unable like, first of all, why am I having this reaction to this image? What's going on with me? [32:20] And-- You turned inward. [32:22] I turned inward. [32:24] And then my second thought was, [32:27] I can't [32:28] do that. Right. [32:30] because [32:31] As a dude, [32:32] You can do that because it is an accessory. Uh-huh. [32:37] You can turn it on and turn it off. You can hand it to someone else to take while you need to go to hours of conference programming where you can't have kids in it. What do you think he was doing with his child? Yeah. [32:47] I think he was traveling with his partner or with someone who was taking care of the kid a majority of the time. Like, it's impossible to do that.

[32:55] Unless you have someone who's willing to take the kid while you need to work. Right. Right. [32:59] So, [33:00] it was really disregarding that person in this equation who was clearly taking care of the kid when he had to do his work commitments. He wasn't bringing his kid to his meetings. Right. Yeah. [33:10] And... [33:11] So it pissed me off. [33:14] Fair. Because I'm like either acknowledge the other caretaker in the situation. [33:19] Or don't like try to come off as like virtuous dad. Yeah, totally. Totally. [33:24] Triggered. Totally triggered. Majorly triggered. But, I mean, rightfully so. I don't know. There's something about it that feels... [33:33] Disingenuous. [33:34] disingenuous yeah it's not like bring your kids to work right you can't bring your kids to work nobody wants that [33:41] No, you actually can't do it. [33:43] Right. So to pretend that you can... [33:46] it's just weird i don't know anyway i'm i'm on i'm on one welcome to my ted talk hopefully you have some that are a little more a little lighter i don't unfortunately i don't have any um draft tweets oh actually i do have a draft tweet but it's too mean and that's why i didn't draft tweet it wow we went dark and mean for this edition of draft tweets great okay so jack [34:15] And his... [34:17] fiance now wife margaret quali got married this weekend at the jersey shore and they look terrible oh they look bad great i don't agree no i think she looks adorable no they look bad their clothes are ill-fitting she

[34:31] She looks so cute. She's so pretty. I haven't been looking at him. Incorrect. [34:36] okay i know the beauty is she's gorgeous she's stunning but she's got like a weird 50s hair like bob thing she has a dress that's completely doesn't fit her completely does not fit her he's got a suit that's oversized and it's like they're trying to be like we're cool and like we don't even care low maintenance low maintenance but it reads they missed like you can do that and you can [35:04] cool you missed i think that this tweet should stay in the draft [35:09] and it's upsetting to me because they are such a cute couple and she's so beautiful and he's what he is so handsome oh man what a dark way to end what a dark dark way to end but you know what [35:25] that's why they're the draft sometimes we got to get them out exactly okay bye [35:32] Dina, where are we going to be in September? We are going to be at Permissionless in Austin, Texas. Permissionless too. It's happening. And we're curating the culture track for the conference. So if you're into the stuff we talk about here, you should come and have a good time with us. So email your boss, tell them that you need to go and buy your ticket now. They will never be as cheap as they are today. And we also have a promo code in our discord for Boy Scout members. Come hang in Austin. [36:01] Friends.

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