We Hear For You | Carly Reilly, Overpriced JPGs

[00:00] What's your... [00:03] Feeling. [00:03] I'm feeling antsy. [00:05] I'm feeling like... [00:07] I want to make some moves. [00:10] Hello, I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. The Boys Club podcast? No. [00:20] Now, [00:21] Just boy stuff. [00:23] Hi. Hey. [00:24] Dina, what's Boys Club? Oh, I wanted to ask you. I got to it first. I got to it first. Boys Club is a community and it's a media empire. Oh, I love empire. I've been watching The Empress on Netflix. Shout out. Really good. You like it. I'm so glad. Yeah, you recommended it and it's really good. Well, we're so happy you're here. Dina and I are the co-founders of Boys Club. [00:54] which is a great place to start. We have a newsletter, which is so fun and gives you the TLDR on what's happening in Web3 each week. You can subscribe to both those things. For free. Yeah, for free. These are free services. Yeah. So please take advantage. We also have a whole world of other things, NFTs, products, events that we do all the time, lots of really fun stuff. So [01:24] Okay, so on today's show, we had a friend of the pod on, we had a friend of the pod, Carly Riley from Overpriced JPEGs. She's so fun, so great. She's so great. We talked about a very exciting project that she has going on, so definitely stay to listen to hear about that. And we talked about the metaverse. She's very, very, she's long metaverse. She's long metaverse. She talked about the arc of justice in the metaverse, so give that a listen. She's also celebrating one year of Overpriced JPEGs.

[01:54] Huge congratulations on that front. Yeah, major congrats. And then we talked about what's happening in our DAO program [02:02] Just... [02:04] A printed zine. A zine, moving parts. We tried a little bit of a different format this week where we just made things a little bit shorter. [02:13] More brevity. Punchier. Nobody asked us to, but we thought that that might be a good idea. So we're trying it out. A little punchier, a little direct to the point. Here we are. So check that out. And then there was a feelings check-in where Dina talks about her uncomfortability with being a crypto influencer. [02:30] For the record, that is not true. I mean, I... [02:36] It's not true. You just have to listen because... [02:39] I just, I'm just reeking of insecurity around this conversation, so I can't even deal with it in this intro. It's great. It's great. And... [02:48] Yeah, good pod. Good pod. Good pod. So just before we get started, shout out to our sponsors, MoonPay. [02:55] Thank you, MoonPay, for sponsoring this podcast. Easiest way to buy and sell crypto. It's so easy. You can use your credit card. You can use Apple Pay. You can just get in there. Get in, get out. Buy your doge. It's back up. [03:08] Thanks to you, Lon. I saw that they have Doge listed up and down this past week. I'm not a Doge holder. Are you? No. Well, actually, wait, I do have a funny story. So I was invited to a Pleaser Dow party. Okay. No, Pleaser Dow? Yeah, Pleaser Dow party.

[03:26] you were required to hold [03:29] The Pleaser Dao... [03:31] Coin. I can't remember what it's called. Okay. And it was the first crypto party I ever went to. It was like, this was last, you know, August, September time. And I didn't know what I was doing. And so I bought some Doge thinking that it was the right thing. [03:44] coin to buy. It was not the right coin to buy. And then I figured that out too late. So I do hold a tiny, tiny bit. I think it's like $3 worth of doge, but that's just an air. That was just me being human air. Yeah. Human air user air. Um, great. Well, thank you, Moonpay. Um, and enjoy [04:14] Overpriced JPEGs, a bankless HQ podcast about NFTs and the metaverse. And she also produces and co-hosts Between Two Layers with Immutable X. Carly is a very legitimate friend of the pod. So welcome to the show, Carly. Thanks so much. Thank you for having me, y'all. I'm so excited to be here. [04:32] Yeah, we're really excited to have you. Okay, so we're going to play Explain the Tweet with Carly. [04:37] And it's a simple tweet. It's just a simple tweet here. The arc of the metaverse is long, long. [04:44] but it bends towards justice. [04:48] Oh my gosh, I'm laughing that this is the tweet we've landed on. I want to let you unpack it, but before you do, Natasha, what's your level of comprehension on this tweet? I got to say, I'm not a big metaverse person, so I'm in it, but I'm not fully getting it.

[05:01] Yeah, I feel like the... [05:04] How deep you can go with where and what the metaverse is is still a very open question to me. But what I think this tweet is getting at, which is exciting to me, is like the... [05:17] We're all in the design phase, and we talk about this a lot, the design phase of what the metaverse and what the future of the internet is going to look like. And then we have an opportunity to build the world we want to see. And I'm hoping, I'm thinking that that's where this tweet is headed, but Carly, take it away. [05:33] Well, I'll start by saying I hope I can give a good explanation for my own tweet. I do think it's up for interpretation, so feel free to tweet at us and tell us what this tweet means. [05:47] and on the other hand, the backstory to how this tweet came to be, which I've debated whether or not is worth sharing. But I use a tweet scheduling service called Hype Fury. You go on and you can schedule your tweets for the week. I'll probably do it in an hour. I tend to do it on Sundays. I'll schedule tweets for the week because I'm just bad at thinking about tweeting all throughout the week. And Hype Fury as a service will populate [06:10] will like suggest quotes, famous quotes that you can then tweet out, you know? And so one of the auto-populated tweets that was recommended to me was the arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice, which is an expression I'm assuming most people have heard. But that just like popped up and I was like, all right, quick fix. Metaverse, that was my tweet. And so it was, there was very little thought put into this tweet, I will say. But I actually, I did genuinely like it. Because I think that expression by and large is actually true in the world.

[06:40] You know, like, progress is not linear. You know, justice is not, like, we don't just, like, march towards it in one smooth, even line. But I do think if you look over a long enough time horizon, you know, the world gets fairer, better, more empathetic, kinder. Like, we're clearly living in a more empathetic time now than we did 100 years ago. Mm-hmm. [07:02] So for me in the metaverse context, again, I think you could take it a bunch of different ways, but A, I think – [07:07] I think we're already... [07:10] moving towards a better internet, right? I think Web3 introduces a better internet, right? A protocol-centered internet as opposed to like a platform-centered internet where you have more autonomy as individuals. I think hopefully that leads to more privacy, more, you know, self-sovereignty, all these ideals. And so sort of on a macro level, if you think of the metaverse [07:40] we're moving in the right direction, you know, bending towards justice, so to speak, in that sense. But then even within the more narrow context of like the metaverse, yeah. [07:48] I'm optimistic we'll get to an interoperable place. Like, I don't think we're going to live in the Ready Player One world where, you know, Meta, aka whatever the company is in Ready Player One, whose name I'm forgetting, right? Like... [07:59] owns everything. I'm sure Natasha has not seen that movie. I was like, um, I've seen it, but I'm not looking at Natasha. Have you read the book? Have you read the book? Of course not. Carly, come on. I have. I've read the book and seen the movie. I don't know that you're going to love it, but is it like super? It's like, yeah, super sci-fi.

[08:21] Vibes. It's like very approachable sci-fi. Yes, 100%. Because I'm not like a strict, I'm not really a sci-fi girl. And I loved the book. And the movie is like also very watchable. [08:31] It's kind of... [08:33] A little bit juvenile. Like it's a little bit, it's for kids. Totally. Is it like a teen thing? Yes. That will make me like it more, honestly. I'm more interested now. [08:42] No, I would say so. Wouldn't you, Dina? Yeah, totally. I mean, it's going to be a very easy watch. It has some interesting ideas that's baked into it. Read. The book is definitely better. [08:51] Um, it's, it's totally, it's very digestible for you. You know what I think I did, Natasha? I think I listened to the audio book. Great. Which is like your perfect, your perfect way to get, get the book version, which we, we like over the movie version. Okay. But it's, but you know, it's, you don't have to, you know, like sit down with it. So yeah. So you're like, we're not headed towards that world or we are headed. Well, no, no, we're not. So, so the, I'll break down right. I want to bring you briefly. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. [09:21] metaverse-y kind of future where you all put on basically VR headsets and you live in this virtual world because the real world has like gone to shit and that's [09:28] the basic premise. And the metaverse world, there's a... [09:32] battle for who's going to rule it essentially. [09:36] And there's like a company that's, I think Meta would be that company in our like, you know, [09:41] analogy here that's looking to kind of rule the metaverse and own it in like this corporate overlord way. [09:48] And I – [09:50] ever the optimist, like, I don't think that's where we land here. But mostly, I don't think it's going to end up, I don't think it's going to be able to win as the best consumer experience. Like, I don't think the majority of people...

[10:02] think that deeply about the philosophy behind X, Y, or Z. So I don't think the right thing is going to win out because – [10:08] You know, we... [10:10] are going to convince everybody what self-sovereignty means and that's the way to go. But I think there are enough people building that and building that with intention that that will actually end up being the better consumer experience. And so... [10:23] So I think the... [10:25] the more idealistic vision of what the future looks like with crypto and NFTs and the metaverse comes to pass. Which is not to say that it's going to be like a utopia. I think every new technology, you have the super diehards that are utopious about it. And I'm like, this is ridiculous. You know what I mean? We're still humans. We're going to introduce a whole set of new problems because of this. We're going to have all sorts of horrible things happening in the metaverse that are just what happens anytime humans get involved in anything. So I'm not at all utopian about this. But I do think that... [10:55] I think we're going to bend towards justice. [10:57] So there you go. That's my explanation of the tweet. What do we think? [11:01] I mean, I love it. I love the... [11:03] I love speaking to an optimist because it puts a fresh perspective into, um, into my thinking on it. I'm curious, um, [11:11] How would you define the metaverse? Like, how would you define the metaverse today? And how would you define it maybe in... [11:17] Or where do you think it's going in like 25 years? [11:20] 40 years. [11:21] Mm-hmm. [11:22] One of the definitions that I loved is really just an example. I think it was Janine Shaflow. I'm going to mess up her last name. A woman named Janine. Oh, Janine Yorio, I think is her name. Janine Yorio. She is the CEO founder of Every Realm, which is like a metaverse investment company that spun off from Republic. And I heard her say, you know, right now, if you go online, like if I go shop on whatever, free people online,

[11:52] I don't know it. And the metaverse is basically like when those walls are broken down. And so if I'm on this site, like I'd also see, oh my God, Jen's also shopping in here. Like I should, let me text her. Like let's FaceTime while we do this. Or maybe we have a chat thing that we can call each other like natively in the browser and like shop together. Because- [12:08] we both suddenly realize we're there. I think that's a really cool... [12:12] example of it for me of like, it's, you know, I think there is potentially a scenario where 25, 30, 40 years, whatever it is, like a very VR kind of AR immersive experience kind of thing. And [12:25] more final state of the metaverse. But in the shorter term here, I think it's more about just breaking down the walls of the internet so that... [12:33] real life experiences are extended into digital experiences more than they are today. Like if I walked into Free People and saw Jen there, I would see her and be like, oh my God, you're also here, you know, and being able to have that. [12:43] Online. That like connectivity online. [12:45] Yes. So I have to tell you guys a story about my experience of the metaverse right now, which is I follow this TikTok account that's like, [12:53] And this guy, it's like, so he... Dina, I feel like your experience of the metaverse is TikTok. It's TikTok. Well, it's so true. But, okay, so this guy has a TikTok account, and he basically takes clips from... [13:07] metaverse poker tables. Okay. So it's like a bunch of, so what you see is like a bunch of sort of avatars sitting around a poker table in the metaverse. [13:17] And it also records the conversation between the people that are at the table. And as you can imagine, it's every sort of person, like teenagers, like little boys and like older – and like people trying to relate around this thing is hilarious. And Carly, what you were saying about like –

[13:36] humans show up and are just like, [13:38] humans no matter where they are. Totally. Like that's like really what comes through with this account. Like where it's like people are just like so dumb but like in like just a hilarious way and like trying to figure out like we're we have to like there's like a new etiquette that we have to learn about like how to be in these spaces and also like the characters are all like moving really weirdly. So I really link in show notes. We'll definitely drop this account in. I have to see this. But I think that like that's [14:02] yeah I think [14:04] People are going to be people wherever we are, and there will be areas of it that's problematic, of course, because we can't help that. [14:12] Yeah, I think that you do have a very optimistic take, and you are a very, generally very optimistic person. Yeah. It is nice to hear. I think we can choose to see it either way, right? Like, you know what, like, there is absolutely going to be good that comes from this, and there's absolutely going to be bad that comes from this. And we can choose to focus on whichever part— [14:27] We want to focus on, and it's important to focus on both, right? I don't want to be dismissive. Like, we have to focus on the problems so we can fix problems, you know? But one of the things that we've talked about, well, Dina, that you said previously, I think, on the podcast around... [14:41] Once consumers get a taste of Web3 versus Web2 and have a sense of ownership and sovereignty and all these things that Web3 promises, that... [14:52] There will just be, people will just end up choosing that because they'll have this better version of the internet. And I think it's a hopeful look in basically what this tweet is saying is like, as people have sort of. [15:05] consumers will choose in the end what,

[15:10] They will choose what will work. And they will choose what's best for them, basically. And I think there's a way you could look at that in a really cynical way, but I think there's also a way where you can see it, especially with what we're all getting to work on now and getting to decide what it looks like, that there's this really hopeful future in that, where as consumers have more and more say over what the metaverse, what the internet looks like in the future, hopefully that will look like a more just... [15:36] world. Yes, I have such a good example. Sorry, Dina, do you want to say your cynical take? I just want to balance it out by saying like it's [15:46] The week we've had where a billionaire bought the... [15:53] biggest media platform in the world to consolidate. Like there's definitely a take, which is like, I hope we can get there. I hope we can get there. But like, I think that there's not insignificant obstacles. Yeah. [16:03] in the way of that. And I think not insignificant, like, risks that – [16:09] That doesn't happen because of various things. So just want to make sure we're always balancing that out. Yes. I was going to say to your point, Natasha, which I guess is you quoting a Dina point, but around like once people get a taste, it's hard to go back. I had a moment recently where I was logging into a website using my Google account or whatever, you know, the thing that we all experience so regularly. But it just hit me in this way where I was like, [16:36] This now annoys me. Like this is something that even as somebody who's been in this space for a year and a half. I have that experience this week too. Yes. Like even two years ago, I was like, this wouldn't have bugged me at all. I'd been like, oh yeah, whatever. Okay. But I'm like, why the hell does Google...

[16:47] own my entryway to this, like, what? Why? Like, why did they get to own this relationship, own this portal, know the fact that I'm entering this website like this? Like, that's so irritating to me. It should be my wallet address. It should be something that I have this, like, sovereignty over and ownership over and that is mine. And once you... [17:07] cross over that thing. You just can't go back. You're like, this is wrong. This doesn't make sense. This doesn't make sense as a way that the internet works, that you have these to your point. [17:16] Like a few companies that just control the internet. That's stupid. [17:21] Okay. So Carly, you came, you have something big going on this week. Yes. I have two things that I'm excited to talk to you about. Okay. Talk to us. Talk to us. Okay. The first one, I'll do this one first, I guess. So I have been kind of teasing on my own podcast for a while now, the fact that I went to Puerto Rico in February and shot this documentary and I'm so excited. It is finally coming out this coming week. And I'm going [17:46] So I guess a couple things to say on that. First, there was a hurricane recently in Puerto Rico. It hit right before Hurricane Ian. It didn't get a ton of publicity here, but it was pretty devastating. I mean, you still have an island that's like... [17:58] in some ways, only just recovered from Hurricane Maria, which hit back in 2017. They have pretty bad government corruption, you know, so people are just not given the resources and support that they need to, you know, survive these kind of situations. So you have a lot of people who are still, like, without power or in just bad situations since this most recent hurricane hit. So I've partnered with a number of folks who I worked with for this documentary. And so for every view that the documentary gets in the first week that it airs, we'll have a dollar, a dollar will be donated to Hurricane Relief Funds in Puerto Rico. So that's your incentive to go watch it. Go watch it.

[18:28] As it comes out, go watch. So I'll make a donation. And then MetaMask, who's the sponsor and sort of been a partner on this with me, are matching that donation. So that's how we'll get there. So thank you to MetaMask for that. So please go check it out. We'll include the link. This will be coming out after it's already been out for a little while. So I guess I should be talking about this as if it's already out, not as if it's about to come out. Link and show notes. Go watch it now. Go watch it now. Go get the views so that we can get these donations out. And that's the first thing. [18:55] The second thing is kind of the point of the documentary, which is, I think there's actually a decent amount of press focus on crypto in Puerto Rico, but it's primarily through the lens of... [19:08] this law called Act 60, where if you go, you basically don't pay capital gains tax. If you're not from Puerto Rico and you move to Puerto Rico and you take up residency on the island, you don't have to pay capital gains taxes. So you have a lot of crypto people that have moved to Puerto Rico for the tax advantages. And it's right to give that some coverage because it has absolutely caused issues. You have a bunch of people moving in who can afford really nice houses and are driving up the rent prices for everybody who's living there. So there's a whole

[19:38] And I'm not trying to take anything away from that being an important story to get told. [19:42] But it becomes the only story about Puerto Rico and crypto that gets told. And the reality is you actually have a really, you know, amazing population of folks who are local native Puerto Ricans who are really into blockchain. And that makes a lot of sense because you have an incredibly artistic culture in Puerto Rico. If you go, you know, there's murals on like every building. It's a very visually artistic culture. It's also like music. And so... [20:05] You have sort of a growing movement of digital artists there who are now into NFTs, making a living on NFTs. You also have some really amazing, too, I think, two or three amazing technical schools and engineering schools in Puerto Rico. Oh, cool. So you have a lot of engineering talent that comes out of Puerto Rico. So that also becomes a fit for people getting into blockchain stuff. And then I met with a whole community of, you know, a whole group of folks who, because of the corruption in the government, are really into blockchain as a tool of transparency. [20:35] and how can blockchain be a way to bring more transparency and like government resources and coordinating government resources to an island that really needs that kind of thing. And so you have these sort of three pieces that are sort of embedded within Puerto Rican culture that make it really... [20:51] like amenable to blockchain culture. And that whole side of it is getting totally erased when all you focus on is like a bunch of people moving to the island to yield, you know, Logan Paul is there kind of a thing. And so it was really fun. I was there for about five days and we shot for four days meeting with folks from these different communities, showing their work. I mean, there's this woman, Christina, who's just this unbelievably talented AR artist. You know, she does these incredibly beautiful paintings that then you hold your phone up and they like come to life and you

[21:21] a gentleman named Juan Salgado, who's an internationally renowned tattoo artist. He's tattooed like Ricky Martin and Bad Bunny, and he has basically tokenized his career, right? So he's now, he launched an NFT program, and the only way to get tattooed by him moving forward will be to own one of his NFTs. So it's sort of this way to like almost speculate on the future value of getting a tattoo from Juan, who's one of the best in the world at this. So just really cool things like that that are going on that I just wanted to kind of bring some attention to, just to kind of balance [21:51] what's going on on the island. And don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people on the island who are resentful and frustrated by [21:56] because of the other side of this too. But that gets a lot of coverage. So anyway, so go check it out. I'm so excited. Cool. That's so exciting. I love it. So link in show notes, definitely go give it a watch. It's the easiest way that you'll donate. [22:12] some money to a good cause. So make it happen. The other thing that you have going on that I'm excited to hear about is overpriced JPEGs is hitting your one year anniversary. I can't even believe it. Is that correct? That's true. One year of overpriced JPEGs. The first episode came out November 12th. Uh, but I think the trailer came out November 10th. So I'm trying to decide what do we think? What's the one year anniversary? Is it the trailer? The 12th. I think it's the first

[22:42] Oh, nice. [22:47] She was my first interview, but that may not have been the first episode. I guess I should. Not that anybody gives a flying shit. [22:56] So... [22:57] I'm doing an airdrop. I'm trying to decide how to talk about this. So everyone who's come on the pod, you guys have been on the podcast before, so y'all will be getting this. Also, can we talk about Dina's [23:06] ETH name? Do we publicly share what Dina's wallet address is? We have not. Now is the moment. It is the best. No, it's not. Okay, we're not currently. It's not the moment. Just the backstory here. That's for like an alt, a non wallet that I have. Got it. And sometimes it's just the easier one to share because it's so short. So the backstory here is that I have an ENS [23:27] Um, name, um, [23:28] That I got that like it's it it's. [23:32] Honestly, it's one of the best investments I made in the last bull market. You have offers on it? Well, no, because of the ENS airdrop. Oh, it's short. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of the chicken. The airdrop. So anyway, one day on this pod, I'll tell everyone what the name is. Okay. That's a good tease. Keep listening to this podcast, folks, because it is worth it. It is worth it for the day Nina decides she's going to unveil it. That's hilarious. Okay, fine. [24:02] For the one year, we're airdropping to all of my past guests and then to some of my biggest supporters who have kind of been with me from the beginning, sharing the podcast on social media and just been amazing and supportive.

[24:15] I'll be getting an airdrop for an NFT that's been designed with an artist in the space, so I'm not going to name. That'll be a surprise when it kind of happens. And then in January, everybody who's got this NFT will be able to redeem it for a bottle of overpriced gin. Oh, cute. So it'll be this collector's bottle of gin. I've tried the gin. It's great. [24:32] I'm usually a tequila girl, but we're doing gin for this one because it worked OPJ. We're going to do gin with a J. And the label for the bottle will be the artwork that we designed for the NFT. And so it'll hopefully be, it's a beautiful bottle. It'll be a beautiful little collector's gift item in addition to it being some... [24:49] Utility, what's utility? [24:50] Go get hammered, y'all. You know, that's your utility right there. That's the utility on Overseas Shade Guys. Look at you shipping product. That's exciting. Yeah, I know. I'm really excited. I think it'll be fun. I think, I don't know. I just want to do something a little different, and I'm doing that in partnership with Liquid Collections. [25:04] which is a very cool company. I've been sort of advising them and Kit Kodik, the founder for [25:09] a number of months now, and they're sort of now in the place where they can get product out and juice, as he calls it, get some nice juice out. That's apparently what insiders call liquor. [25:21] What a year it's been to be hosting an NFT podcast. What a year. I was joking somewhere else that I... [25:30] The podcast launched in November of last year, which was literally the peak. So I'm like, guys, the second I get out of podcasting, that's the bye sign. You know what I mean? I got in at the peak. I got in at the sell moment. [25:44] So when I leave someday, that's your entryway. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to leave anytime soon. So I think we won't have a goodbye moment for a long time. Well, Carly, thank you so much for coming on. A lot of fun stuff happening in your world.

[26:00] and talk about it and talk about hopefully how the metaverse is going to be a better just place, fingers crossed. [26:13] In 20 years, we'll be doing this again. We'll be like, it is, I don't know. Would you say it's a better world today than 20 years ago? [26:19] I think, yeah. I think it is. Yeah, so in 20 years, I think we'll be saying the same. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Carly. [26:26] We'll talk to you soon. Bye. [26:34] Thank you. [26:34] Hey, Natasha. Hi. So what's happening in our DAO this week? [26:38] Okay, so a few months ago, [26:41] One of our favorite contributors, not that we have favorites, but one of our favorite contributors... [26:46] sent in this proposal to do a zine. [26:48] And everyone lost their mind and everybody was like, 100%, let's fucking go. This is an amazing idea. And you and I were like, perfect. This is a scrappy... [26:59] Low lift, test, throw it, just throw it together, throw it out like fun. [27:05] Now this has become a nine part deliverable project. [27:11] Like, not like nine individual things, like nine distinct things. [27:16] projects within the zine that are being project managed. We're using Monday. Like that's how far, that's where we're at. We're in a project management tool at this point with this. So that's what's happening in our DAO. Do you just talk to me about it? Yeah, it's grown arms and legs.

[27:34] in ways that we definitely, we were like... [27:38] Cool. Like, we'll just do like some underground scene. We're so edgy. Yeah. And, um... [27:47] now have woken up to the reality of what that means. And also, um, [27:53] Yeah, you know, we're doing some Web3 things with it. [27:57] Adds complexity. There's been a lot of complexity that's been added. It's incredibly complex. It's incredibly complex. And now we have to land all these... [28:07] planes around the zine. So yeah, so there's a big, I think I'm going to share some alpha. There's a big component. No, [28:13] No. Oh. [28:13] Oh, okay. [28:15] Okay. Okay. Yeah. Just don't name names. I know what you're about to say. Just don't name names. So an element of this is our boys club it list, which is basically like, who do we think is shaping the future of web three today? Like who's doing the work of shaping web three? And yeah. [28:30] So up until now, this project has been somewhat internal. We've mentioned it on some podcasts, but like, we're not like, there's nothing out there in the world. And then this past week, you, me, and Imani... [28:40] We're like, okay, time to go reach out to this It List group and see... [28:45] what's going to happen? And within a week, every single one of them confirmed. And we were like, Oh fuck, we have to do the scene. [28:53] It was... We are past the point of no return. We must do it now. We must now ship it, which means... [29:00] Individual photo shoots for all of those hit list people. London, LA, Miami, Brooklyn, New York. We're so smart.

[29:11] And not only that, but... [29:17] creating and collecting the content to fill the rest of the pages of the zine. Many contributors, many different things to collect and to then lay out. Edit. Edit. And design. Deadlines. Print deadlines. So anyway, it's awesome. We're having a great time. It's really exciting. It is really fun. It's so fun. And honestly, this week of getting these yeses from people, like, [29:42] It was a dopamine hit. Like every time I was just like, are you kidding me? This person said yes. And like, that's so exciting. Yeah. And yeah. I think the funnest part of it has been just like, we approached it with just a real spirit of experimentation. [29:59] And that has been true, like, at every point along the way. And that has just made it so fun to do. Where we're just like, I don't know. Let's just try it. Like, let's just see what happens. [30:11] And... [30:12] I hope we never lose that at Boys Club. Oh, man. I hope it never becomes not fun. Oh, that's not what I was... [30:21] That's not what I thought you were saying. I thought you were saying like, I hope we never lose that like just like lighthearted experimentation like. [30:30] you know, and that I don't want to lose that either. I don't want to lose that. Yeah. I think we're going to, I think we might grow out of that eventually, but I do think it'll always be fun. [30:38] Hopefully always be fun. There's been so many amazing contributors and people that have come around this project. I'm not going to name names because I get that you're listening to a podcast and that feels like, I don't know who these people are. Why am I hearing all these names? So I'm not going to do that. It's just like strangers. They're like, cool. This is like random names. I won't do that. But, um.

[30:55] There's been a lot of energy around it. [30:59] There will be a printed... [31:01] zine as well as a digital experience coming your way. Microsite. So keep your eyes peeled. Yeah, keep your eyes peeled. [31:10] So that's what's happening in our day. Hey, Natasha. Yeah, Dina. Who is this podcast sponsored by? This podcast is brought to you by Moonpay. And it's very easy to be sponsored by someone when you legitimately like them and think that their product is really great. So here's the thing. At Boys Club, we are acutely aware of how cumbersome the onboarding of new people into crypto is. [31:40] buying a token can be so overwhelming. When you're first exploring crypto, this is basically all you're thinking about. MoonPay changes all of that. It's fast and simple and incredibly user-friendly. They make it so, so easy to jump into Web3. So easy that you can use your credit or debit card to buy and sell crypto and other digital collectibles. For all you crypto-native people out there, you know that this is an absolute rarity. It's trusted by millions worldwide and loved by yours truly at Boys Club. Visit MoonPay.com to get started. We love you, MoonPay. [32:10] you [32:12] Hi. Hey. [32:14] We're trying this new thing where we do a shorter what's happening in our doubt and a shorter feelings check-in. [32:19] And we're going to see how it goes. So I, yeah. And I also just want to invite any feedback on the podcast.

[32:25] If you have any things that you want to hear more of or less of, let us know. [32:29] Yeah. Just slide into our DMs. Tell us. [32:31] Um, [32:33] We're incredibly sensitive about it. Be nice about it. Yeah, yeah. Don't be mean, but do tell. But let us know. Okay, Dina, talk to me. How are you feeling? What are your feelings? I'm feeling like... [32:49] Some anxiety... [32:52] around [32:55] like, [32:57] Having a tiny profile, like, like, [32:59] I just want to preface this by saying... [33:02] This is a small podcast. I have no meaningful profile. [33:08] I have 2,000 followers on Twitter. My Instagram is deleted. And I just want to- She's a star. For the avoidance of doubt, I want everyone to know that I'm coming into this conversation fully present to the fact that this is a non-existent profile. [33:24] That I have. But yeah. [33:26] it's, [33:26] It's more than it was this time last year. Yeah. I will say that. Mm-hmm. That's definitely true. Mm-hmm. And... [33:34] I'm having some anxiety. [33:36] About... [33:38] about that and like about... [33:41] saying the wrong thing, I think. And like, [33:44] People thinking I'm an idiot. Like, here's what happened. You want to know what happened? Oh, my God. Yeah, of course. Okay. So, C-Club. [33:52] invited me to a... [33:55] one of their workshops.

[33:56] as like a guest guest. [33:59] Oh, cool. [34:00] Yeah. Wow. Well, I didn't get the ask, so. [34:08] Well, Steph from C-Club DMed me, and she was like, hey, it was a really last-minute request, so I was definitely filling in for someone who canceled. [34:15] And she was like, hey, I would love it. B-team. The B-team. Yeah, yeah, the B-team. Good to know that I'm the C-team. [34:22] Hey, if you're not available, could you let Natasha know that we might want to attack her? So she called, she DMed me and I'll do anything for her. So I was like, yeah, whatever. Say when and where and I'll be there. And basically the prompt was like helping the C-club. [34:38] Um, [34:39] people with their, what they call call to adventure, which is basically a call to action. So it's like the tagline around what you do. And so she's like, can you come just like for, for 15 minutes, like work with some folks about their tagline. So come on, I do it. And, and there's all these like really cool projects and they're telling me about the tagline and I, and I, and I'm like, [34:59] Giving the best feedback that I have, but like, I don't know that it was useful and... [35:05] I sort of left the call... [35:08] And I was like... [35:09] I don't know that... [35:11] I'm not like... [35:12] I'm not like smart. I'm not an intellectual. Yeah, you are. No, no, no, no, no. But Natasha, like I'm not, there's, there's people you listen to me like that person's an intellectual. [35:20] You're not... Yeah, you're... Yeah, yeah. That's a smart... [35:23] person who has like [35:25] - Mm-hmm. - Point of view that is-- - Oh my god. - Well, not that I don't-- - You have a point of view. - I do have a point of view. And I'm honestly not fishing for compliments. Like, I really want to be clear here that like--

[35:33] I just am not like a – I'm not like an – [35:36] Yeah. I'm not like going to be Chris Dixon. You know what I mean? You're very brass tacks. You're like, yeah. You're a pragmatist. Very pragmatic and very much operating in the real world. And sure, every once in a while, we'll do something kind of smart, but like... [35:51] For the most part, I'm operating on a level that's different. And so when I go into those spaces... [35:57] There's just some people that are really good at stuff like that and really smart and they come off seeming really smart. Yeah. And I just don't know that I come off seeming really smart in those moments because – [36:08] I'm not like waxing philosophical about like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [36:12] brand, you know, and, and like, I, I feel like I don't feel insecure that I have the expertise. And like, I know for sure that I can roll up my sleeves and do any of that work. But when it comes to sort of like being on a stage and talking about it, Mm hmm. [36:28] I don't know that I'm great at that. And so I left that call being like, I'm not good at it. [36:32] Oh no. And then thinking like, [36:36] And then sort of following that thread to be like, I don't know what... [36:41] My... [36:43] profile what my point of view is then. Yeah. Like, yeah. [36:46] I'm not, and then I'm like, what are we doing on this podcast? If I'm not like talking about, like it just all unraveled. [36:52] It's all completely unraveled. Completely unraveled. Oh my God, that's hilarious. Those are the feelings. Okay, well, I have a few things to say. Great. One is that...

[37:04] What I appreciate about you, and I know others do too, is like... [37:09] It's actually really useful. [37:11] to be a pragmatist. It's like incredibly... [37:15] actionable your advice. I know this because we've worked together for years, because I've seen you talk to other founders, and that is more valuable than I think anything. And as a founder, you know, all you want is for someone to tell you [37:29] and give you some feedback that you can actually implement. And not just talk in the clouds about being a founder, but what are you doing when you get off the call? And I feel like you're excellent at that. So I'm sure that it was incredibly useful to all those people. But that doesn't read well on... [37:45] You know where that... I know what you mean. I totally know what you mean. And I think at the end of the day... [37:52] That... [37:54] You tell me this all the time. It comes out, that comes out in the wash. [37:57] There's like the people who are read really well that way, but then can't back it up. [38:02] Like that comes out in the wash. And then what people remember is being able to actually... [38:09] move on the thing, on the piece of advice that was good. I just hope people like... [38:16] I guess I also have an insecurity that, like, I don't know that that's interesting for people, that they, like, want to hear about, like... [38:23] What would you rather be like interesting or useful?

[38:29] I think you'd rather be interesting. [38:32] What would you rather be? [38:34] I think I'd rather be like valuable and useful. Like utility is value. Yeah. So I think that it's more valuable to be somebody who... [38:46] can produce than just to talk. Yeah, totally. And under normal circumstances feel like really at peace with that and that being sort of [38:55] my lane and also your lane. But I guess in the context of like a slightly... [39:02] elevated profile and certainly having a podcast. Right. Oh, totally. What the fuck are we talking about? What are we talking about and why are we the ones to say it? Yeah. Yeah. [39:15] Yeah. [39:15] I feel that. That I do not know. [39:17] And with that, this will be our last episode. [39:24] Ha ha! [39:25] okay okay okay okay [39:33] Do you have some draft tweets for me? [39:36] Thank you. [39:37] I do. [39:38] This one is, it's so millennial cringe. Oh my God. Talk to me. That's why I could never send, I could never send this one. Okay. It's so deeply millennial cringe, but it's true. It's true. [39:49] It happened to me and it's kind of funny. [39:52] Okay. You ready? I'm ready. Okay. Crying exclamation point on the Peloton.

[40:00] Oh my God. Can I tweet it? That's incredible. You can tweet it because you're younger than me. Great. I'll tweet it. I will. I will tweet it. You have to tweet it in the right format. You got to send it to me. You got to send it to me. Oh my God. I love it. Um, okay. [40:15] This is, again, it's a screenshot of, you can't say who it's, you can't see who it's a conversation with, but it's us. And you text, I worry that our needs won't align. Yeah. [40:28] Wait, this is me? This is you. You can't see that, but this is all you see. I worry that our needs won't align. [40:34] And then... [40:35] I respond, what are your needs? And then there's two voice memos. And I take a screenshot of that and I say, a terrifying response. [40:43] that's good thanks thanks i like that yeah [40:49] Okay. [40:50] I'm sending you this one out. Great. Gonna ship it. Ship it right now. Right here, right now. Bye. Bye.