Context: Marjorie Hernandez on building a blueprint for the creative digital economy

[00:00] Welcome to season one, episode eight, [00:02] of context used on crypto and culture presented by Boys Club with me, your host, Blake Finucane. And this is the last episode of season one, which is so exciting. I cannot wait for season two. But for the end of season one, I could not think of a better guest to cap off with than Marjorie Hernandez. She is the co-founder and CEO of Luxo Blockchain and the Dematerialized. And Luxo is [00:32] building tools that make it easy to monetize and build community. And she really cares about creating the conditions for creative expression outside of traditional institutions and middlemen, as well as building value for people and their work that expands outside of just financial applications. So we have some really interesting conversations about that. And complementary to Luxo is the Dematerialized, which is an experimental marketplace, but it is so much more than that. [01:02] garments and objects. They've done collabs with Karl Lagerfeld, with Rebecca Minkoff, with MCQ by McQueen, just to name a few. And we have an awesome conversation about how luxury is defined and communicated in Web3, what high quality digital craftsmanship really looks like, and how to embed really dynamic activations into the post-purchase experience of these items around storytelling and rewards. So it's a fantastic convo you won't want to miss. So let's get into it.

[01:32] you [01:38] I am so lucky to have on today Marjorie Hernandez, CEO and founder of Luxo Blockchain and Dematerialized, both of which I'm super excited to talk about today. Marjorie has been a real leader in all things Web3 fashion. She's working and building at the intersection and really the cutting edge of luxury, of fashion, of crypto, of culture. [01:59] All of Context's favorite things in one. And previously to founding her company, she worked as an art director and a brand strategist, and even created and managed Ernst & Young's Digital Innovation Lab. She was also just featured on Vogue Business' 100 Innovators list. [02:14] You're a dream guest here on Context Marjorie. So thank you so much for being here today. [02:19] Wow, Blake, I'm so happy. Honestly, I need you to make my intro. Always. I really like it. Thank you so much. I can do it anytime you want. Give me a call. I'm here. So excited to chat. I would love to start if you could give an overview of Luxo for people. And what are its real major differentiators from other blockchains? [02:42] Yeah, that's epic. It's funny because we have something in common. In 2018, we published our white paper, just like you did in 2018, to publish your thesis. The fact that you have been thinking about Web3 fashion and luxury... [02:58] For so long is just astonishing. Like it shows how kind of cutting edge you've been because obviously at that time, I mean, the reception, people were just not ready for it as they are now. I was generating a lot of confusion between my friends and partners. Everybody was like, what are you talking about? Totally. So in that time, you know, we sat down, me and my co-founder Fabian, and we both met when we were students at the Bauhaus University here in Germany.

[03:28] and art and all of that stuff. I also studied architecture. That was my second degree. So we have a passion for culture in general, but we are nerds at heart and we really love technology. And we were looking, obviously, we were very embedded in the Ethereum ecosystem. Fabian was part of the Ethereum Foundation. So we were really thinking about what could be done next. And we started working on this paper and we call it Blueprint for a New Greater Economy. [03:55] So, [03:56] It has aged really well, guys. So if you want to read it, and it's an easy read, it's actually quite pleasant. And every now and then I do open the PDF and start searching for keywords. [04:05] because I like it so much, not because we made it, but because it's actually quite good. And, you know, that white paper, basically what we wanted to do is to paint a picture of how kind of like the intersection and the convergence of all of these different pieces of technology that have been developing for a while, where all of this are coming together and going to create this insane synergy in which we will see a completely new economy emerging. [04:35] role on that if done the right way. So we understand things like the identity is extremely important and how the user and the creator have to be 100% under control of their identity or the ability to tokenize an asset or to tokenize a community. So those were kind of like the main topics that we were kind of like exploring in the white paper. [04:56] So the purpose with Luxo is to have our own blockchain network that is compatible with the Ethereum virtual machine that is using the same principles and then build and propose a array of smart contract standards and interfaces that will allow a creator, a brand and user to be able to use.

[05:15] to come in and build amazing, unstoppable, creative applications and assets. So we put a lot of effort on creating a very solid legal framework and operate on the highest of standards that we can. Finally, we are at the point where we feel we have all of the components ready to put them out there in the world for people to use them. That is so exciting. And I know that the launch is coming very, very shortly. [05:45] I wonder if we could, you know, in terms of you saying that this is really a chain that people are able to build on top of when it comes to creators, when it comes to brands, maybe you could expand a little bit more on what you're doing to make it easier. And why would people want to kind of come on to a blockchain in the first place? [06:10] Yeah, 100%, especially because blockchains are like so dry and not a very, the most appealing subject of conversation, quite frankly. Totally, especially for artists, you know, oftentimes. Yeah, it really is. It really is. It's interesting. And I think, you know, for us, it comes down to ease of use. So it's a combination between obviously Fabian and me as well. Obviously, we're strongly, strong believers of open source technology. [06:40] is open source, all of the interfaces are open source. And then the way, you know, the smart contracts are structured, it will really allow for an easy integration for people, right? So I still today, sometimes, you know, I was talking to a business partner yesterday, and she was like, I was trying to participate on this sale. And then by the time I figured it out, it was all gone.

[07:02] people really struggle, right? That onboarding process is extremely unfriendly. So for us, you know, we have proposed this thing called the Universal Profile, which is an array of smart contract standards come together to create this Web 3 profile that looks and feel like Web [redacted address]. It's very easy, very graphic, very simple to use. You can integrate it, the Dematerialize, my second venture integrated the Universal Profile since the beginning. [07:27] And it makes it really easy for the users to... [07:31] to onboard themselves into Web3. So for us, it comes down to have like that toolkit, [07:38] that you need as a creator to get started. And, you know, I think, um, obviously we all have to become versed in tech and we need to understand and learn. And, you know, I think it's unavoidable if you either, you have a company or you're a creator or a brand that you will have to, [07:53] some sort of like big segment of your work has to do with technology. But it should be, it shouldn't be a painful process. And it should be something that is easy to do. I think, you know, in your white paper, and in a lot of the kind of communication about Luxo and the vision, you speak about this term blueprint for the creative economy. So because I know that you are, you know, [08:16] tackling and targeting creatives and very much the kind of art-centric, fashion-centric media, digital or entertainment space. How do you kind of describe and understand the creative economy and how do you

[08:34] how you're specifically targeting it with Luxo. [08:37] Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I think that's such a good question. I think, you know, what we understand as tech creator, I mean, I think obviously we do have an existing community. [08:46] economy that is based on some sort of creative goods and that this is not a novel a novel concept i think the novelty on is on it is the dynamics that we can create right and i think as an artist or as a creator in general [09:01] there's always like this mystery around how am I supposed to enter the market? How am I supposed to monetize this stuff? This is like a mystery and it depends so much of like, if you're in the Western world, [09:15] your chances are higher. If you're not in the West, but you are somewhere in a big capital, then you're a big city, your chances are higher again. So there's no clarity, there's how do you enter and how you address and how you monetize. And even, you know, if you're like a fairly successful artist, you are also embedded in [09:33] in all sort of like different dynamics between middlemen and stuff like that. [09:38] So for us, the way we envision the creator economy is that basically it's almost like you work almost like as a vending machine, right? Like you are as an artist yourself, you are the entity. He owns the IP, creates the IP and sells the IP and... [09:54] gets paid and paid itself and gives itself a change. You know, it's like conflict itself, like this closed system in a way. [10:01] And I think, you know, the moment we have infrastructure and layers that allow for a creator to address the

[10:11] the market and enter the market without having to go through those middlemen and potentially, you know, benefiting primarily from the creation and the IP almost 100% by themselves. This is a completely different kind of like relationship. And also as a creator, you know, we historically, you know, the most famous artists and designers and et cetera have been people from very specific geopolitical locations. And it's not because people in those places are more intelligent or more talented. [10:41] they have the access to the platform. So we allow them to magnify and have access to audiences. So I think also as a... [10:50] humanity as a group, we are also missing on a lot of talent and we don't know what could have been possible if other people from other parts of the world would have access. And, you know, I, this is a topic that for me is very close to my heart because I was born, I grew up in Venezuela. And even though I was born in the capital in Venezuela for a period of time, historically, it was a very prosperous country, not at the moment, it's still very wealthy, even though it's not prosperous. [11:20] world is not happening where you are. [11:23] Yeah. That the world is happening somewhere else and things can feel really far away. [11:29] And but I think intrinsically as humans, we all have kind of like the same desires of participating and whatever. So I think through technology, you know, we can take something that was scarce and make it abundant and. [11:40] And I think technology is going to enter blockchain technology. I think that's the great thing about Web3 that unfortunately kind of gets lost sometime in this narrative of speculations and very short-minded kind of like lived strategies. It's the fact that for the first time in history, we have a way to create value that is independent for any purpose.

[12:03] institution from any government and all of a sudden, you know, the power is in your hands. In my country, the currency has been in control for like over 20 years now. So, you know, there's a lot of things that we don't think about, but [12:17] There are problems of most of the population of the planet. And if we can all of a sudden break that dynamic, we don't depend necessarily on the dynamics of our government, if the government becomes corrupt or the institutions become corrupt. And all of a sudden it's all about us and we enter in an agreement. I think that's a very sexy proposition. [12:38] We love a sexy proposition. That is for sure. Especially when it has to do with blockchain. So you can't go wrong with that combo. There's another thing that you mentioned in the white paper, also in a lot of your recent mirror posts around this term, which I love, cultural currencies and cultural tokens. [12:57] Yes. I'd love for you to expand on that more. Yeah, that's amazing. And I think, you know, for us, this is one of the topics that we personally find the most exciting. And we don't necessarily have an answer that is satisfying. But I think, for example, Fabian, my co-founder, he proposed the ERC-20 token standard. Which I think people just need to pause on the fact that the co-founder of Luxo proposed the ERC-20 standard. So we could just take one second, [13:27] but that's a wow that's a wow moment yeah it is kind of a wow and I remember because Fabian and I we know each other now for 15 years that and I met him he was

[13:36] still doing his bachelors, I remember when he proposed it, [13:41] And we had a lot of conversations around it. And I remember a period of time passed [13:46] before he got adopted, it was like nine months. And by the time he was getting adopted, he kind of like had moved on from it a little bit. And I remember a friend of ours was like, who's a lawyer, really cool, like kind of like Web3 lawyer. He was like, [13:59] this is the most incredible, like, you're going to go down to history. And I was like, really? And for the fact, he didn't. Of course, there were a lot of conversations around ICOs and things like that. But it wasn't necessarily, I don't think his vision and the conversations that we were having and the discussions were not necessarily around making ERC-20 tokens to be, all of them be financial assets, right? But it was, and they don't need to be financial instruments, right? That's interesting. It's a consequence because, of course, I mean, if you can make money out of something, [14:29] are going to do it. But I mean, I think there's a lot of value that is being created on the internet and in all of these dematerialized virtual environments where we're spending more and more time. There isn't necessarily... [14:41] quantifiable in a sense of this is a financial instrument, but this is like a cultural... [14:47] you know, interaction currency, right? And a lot of things, a lot of value, like the reason why people want to have followers on the internet, the reason why the Kardashians are culturally relevant is because that amount of people giving attention is a, [15:03] tremendous form of currency, right? And I think people who are following her or following anybody who is, you know, relevant, they don't necessarily profit from it. And that support and that amount of time that they're investing into supporting that specific creator into having this attention and whatever is not being reciprocated. And we think about like this cultural currencies can become like this, this in between that somehow signifies and signalize the certain relationships

[15:33] They are quantifiable, but they're not necessarily translatable into dollars, ETH, or LUX, or whatever you might prefer, or PESOS. But they do have a value, right? And the value could be recognized. So that's where we see the just by the fact... [15:51] that we have this amazing decentralized machine that can allow us to tokenize pretty much anything as long as we agree. And then we can create supplies and like have any kinds of rules around minting and how they get issued, you know, [16:04] you can implement it around anything. And this is where we see the cultural currency is one of the things that actually we humans, [16:12] we're driving towards. Like the reason why you make a decision of buying a Chanel handbag, or you buy a specific piece of art or a specific book or pen is, of course, it's a part of function. But you know, the function will mean that our built environment will look very different if we will be only driven by function, right? There's a part of us that is driven by beauty, and you know, there's our ability and just enjoyment, right? And when we make most of our decisions, [16:40] they are not logical. Like, why would you pay double of the price tag for something made by this brand versus something made by another brand when the quality might be identical? So it's because we want to belong and represent that we share the values of a specific brand, a specific creator, and join that ethos. And by having... [17:00] that ownership we're able to display on a person with fantastic taste, or I'm a person who is like this, or I subscribe to this belief system. And, you know, I like, you know, I'm an early person, whatever it might be. So I think that that way of signal that we want to signalize and express

[17:18] who we are and our interests beyond where our hands and our lips can express. I think that's the bit that cultural currencies can come in and really play a huge role. And for example, with the Dematerialize, we experienced that we have a lot of users [17:36] who participate in every job. [17:39] Every time we make a sale, they're always there. But they purchase maybe the cheapest product we have available versus you have somebody who bought once but bought the most expensive product we ever sold. And then you can wonder who of the two users loves the dematerialized more. If you will go by Eros, the person who bought one a 9,000 euro dress may be $1,000. [18:02] you know, seems to be the one who put the more money into the product, but it's not necessarily the biggest fan of the brand, right? That person who is every other week, you know, [18:11] sitting in front of their phone waiting for a thing to drop and is engaging that person obviously and then that needs to be recognized and quantified in certain form so that's what we want to do with them with the cultural currencies. [18:24] And, you know, to be able to offer that space for creators to come on, create their universal profile and perhaps, you know, participate in other creators drops or experiences and, you know, take on their cultural currency or create their own. And I think there's so much room for experimentation there. So I think and I love the idea of, you know, particularly in relation to Fabian and the ERC-20 that he didn't necessarily design it just for economic means.

[18:54] Obviously, crypto as we know it from 2018 to now, obviously, I think there's been lots more opportunities in the last year of expanding beyond economics, which is what this whole podcast is about, talking about the opportunities of crypto beyond economies and really where it plays into culture. But you bringing that idea to the forefront, I think that's really actually not talked about enough. And I think that that's really, really exciting. And, you know, you're talking about brand as well. [19:24] Yeah. [19:26] Obviously, it's a super intense competitive space to build a blockchain. And I'm wondering how you do look at and think through... [19:34] I guess brand building is the right term, ways that you're kind of shaping the way you communicate and storytell around Luxo. It's a blockchain. As you said, that can be very scary for people. So how do you kind of think and shape how you communicate with these complex ideas? [19:53] That's such a great question. And it's occupied tons of my awake time thinking about this topic. Yeah, I mean, especially at the beginning, that was the reason why we drafted the white paper in the way we did. And why we is not especially technical as a paper, because we just wanted to talk about it in terms of like, what does it mean for us as a person? [20:19] humans that, you know, want to do cool stuff in the world. [20:22] So that was kind of like the first step towards that. Like it doesn't have to be something that is scary. It doesn't have to...

[20:30] intimidate you. It's just like these are the possibilities and we have to figure out how to gain access to those possibilities. At the beginning we had a very [20:43] I think we really differentiated ourselves from the rest of the blockchain space because we had a very subtle [20:52] people almost call it feminine, which I will agree, not necessarily the way I will describe it, but like a different visual language. And I think, um, [21:02] for us, it's very important that we exist truly in that juxtaposition between technology and culture. And that we, by the way of our visual language, by the way of the swag or whatever we do, that we are not... [21:16] using language and [21:19] if it's verbal written or visual, that is exclusive in some way. Because I feel a lot of people get intimidated by blockchain tech because of the lingo, like just the words, they get confused and then they block. And it's like, listen, man, this is really not that different from stuff that you already know. We're just using different words for it. So you're basically creating that... [21:42] You can explain a lot of complicated stuff in lame. Lame in terms? Yeah. Lame in terms. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, too, you know, if you're explaining something in a complicated way, it means that you don't understand it as well. To really show skill in communication and skill in knowledge, communicating things more simply, that's the highest level of understanding, really. 100%. 100%. And also, you know, one of the reasons why I started the Dematerialize also...

[22:11] driven by my passion for digital assets, it was because I realized people don't really... [22:18] other people still were not understanding it seemed very i mean they were inspired but it seemed very abstract and i didn't know how this translate into an actual thing like of course people's fantasies were triggered but i didn't know exactly like and but then how does it look and when i built it and realized my phone couldn't stop ringing people were telling me like now i get it and i was like really that makes you get it but because it became so simple right and you know we [22:48] And then people who are onboarding themselves into like having a profile and purchase an NFT, [22:53] It lasted 60 seconds and most of the people who bought it in the material, especially at the beginning, were people who were buying NFTs for the first time in their life. [23:02] Which is amazing. And then, you know, for them, it became so clear. And then this is it. And, you know, I talked with a person from our community who I just hired to become our community manager. She's amazing. And she told me her first NFT was already materialized. And after that, she lost the fear of Web3. And now she's like this massive NFT. That's powerful. And then she went ahead. [23:24] Right? So I think, you know, it's just about... [23:27] At the end of the day, we just need to make sure that things become accessible by the means of, I can use it. I can do something with it. If we become very descriptive about things without showing back with an example, I think most things would be impossible to imagine. If I will describe you a car and you have never seen a car, it would be like, I have no idea what you want me to imagine. But if you see it, it's pretty obvious and powerful why a car is amazing. So I think that's what we want to do. We want to lead by example.

[23:57] a couple of in-house projects as well to demonstrate what can be done. And then once we set up the example and we put the [24:05] the tools out there then boom we hope i can't wait to see all of those coming soon um yeah i'd love to follow up two things before i get into the dematerialize specifically because i cannot wait to talk about it um i wanted to to just [24:21] talk just before we move on to that is, you know, Luxo, I mean, the term, you know, luxury, Luxo, play on that. I'm wondering if you specifically... [24:34] wanted to target the luxury market, if that was originally the vision. I know as we get into the dematerialize and the brands that you've worked with, I mean, we're talking about top of the top here. So clearly there is kind of... [24:46] that situation, like you're situating yourself in that lane, but has that been specific kind of [24:53] putting yourself very much kind of branding or communicating around luxury and around fashion. [25:01] Yeah, no, that's a great question. And honestly, it kind of like was it wasn't necessarily intentional around luxury in terms of like the current luxury consumption. We were talking a lot back then about the new luxury and what luxury is going to mean. [25:15] coming up. Okay, love that. So for us Luxo is about what is the new luxury and new luxury is things around access and belonging and being part and things like that. But also, for example, when I was studying architecture, one of my best friends, Rodolfo, um,

[25:31] He was making these really crazy art experiments that he's not doing anymore, but they were great. And they were all around space. And his thesis was that the biggest luxury in our physical world is the access to space. If it's either space to think or like square meters of living or like, you know, any kind of space is the biggest form of luxury. So it was luxury as a concept. It was very present when we chose the word. [26:01] of an issue when we had this amazing advisory board that we formed really, really early. Blake, you have to imagine, [26:10] 2018 going to these amazing people. I've seen the board. I've seen the board and I hesitated on mentioning the board because I was like, people are just going to be so distracted thinking about them. But yeah, your board, unbelievable. Like the who's who. [26:23] Yes, it's an amazing board. And of course, there was a big kind of like traditional luxury population, let's say, there. So, of course, between the both, it gave us a feeling of impression that we were targeting luxury and fashion. But that's not our intention. For us, it's truly about a greater economy and redefining what luxury is. I love that. And all around the new luxury. Yeah. And also, obviously, I speak my mother tongue Spanish. [26:53] German every other day. So we were looking for a word that people can pronounce. [26:58] in pretty much [27:00] independently independently of your mother tongue or your alphabet some people say luxor luxor like when it works you know people yeah and the canadian the canadian accent is probably one of the least um attractive ways that you could say it but um the way you say it is i love um i mean the way that you put that i think is so eloquent and and defining a new luxury particularly around space and access so just to expand a little bit on that before now i get into the dematerialize because

[27:30] is luxury defined or expressed in a specifically web3 way? That's a great question and I think how it is expressed today hopefully is not the way that is going to be necessarily in the future but I think we already have some of the signals right and I think [27:45] You know, being able to display the things that you own is a big, big, big thing. Also belonging to our community. I mean, I think Web3 has been... [27:56] one of the most successful groups of people in terms of attempting to create this strong sense of community and belonging and give those people access to, to, to, [28:06] to an event. I remember when I was in South South by last year, there was this amazing sandbox party and I was on the list, but there was still a line of like, I don't know how many people. Classic crypto party on the list, still a line. I went to the business and I have a lot of like artifact NFTs. It's like, [28:27] please and then she was like please come in okay you know there is that there's this that part of kind of like displaying and being able to prove your ownership and like that ownership is is portable which i think is so great and no matter where you are in the world you can you can flex your stuff man like you cannot show your closet to people but when you're traveling but you can show them your your wallet so i think people show a lot through that through that ownership of of

[28:57] different and I think there would be things around reputation that would be you know [29:03] For example, I remember David Fisher, who is one of our advisors and the founder of High Snobiety, which is an amazing publication. Casual, just casual. Just casual. David, you know, of course, they're big into sneaker culture. And he says, like, you know, instead of like... [29:19] making people stay on the line, like make them do stuff says, go clean this neighborhood and then come back and you get your sneaker, you know, like things like that. Like start like making incentivize people to gain access to things by doing good stuff or cool stuff, you know? So I think like that ability of like gaining a reputation and that reputation, but either you do good deeds or you are an amazing creator and then that will start giving you access to things. That's also, [29:49] Thank you. [29:49] to not the ability to to buy stuff but it's also about your ability to to [29:56] to be and the stuff that you're doing, right? So I think that part, and that comes back to the cultural currencies, I think that's a huge part of how, you know, value and luxury and access is going to be defined in this future of Web3 and beyond. Web3 and beyond, because we have it now, but we need it. [30:15] We need it in the future too, hence and beyond. And I think, you know, the way that you say that, you know, defining luxury is actually something that oftentimes you can't buy. [30:25] i.e. the cultural tokens, cultural currencies, and actions that are expected of you, reputation. So it's not just because you have the most money, you're able to get access to all these things. It becomes kind of this deeper experience, which I love, and obviously that you're facilitating with what you're building. And, you know, we've mentioned the dematerialized a lot, but I would love if you could speak specifically about the vision around it and how it relates to Luxo. Yeah.

[30:51] 100%, 100%. So basically, with the dematerialized [30:56] When we started, obviously I've been obsessed with the concept of dematerialization since a couple of years. So we obviously we've been very, and I've been very passionate around the concept of dematerialization. [31:07] dematerialization as somebody who was born in 1985. I have seen the world change drastically. You've accomplished so much for being so young. It's wild. It's absolutely wild. [31:19] You're too kind. You're too kind. Honestly, the other day I was watching a TikTok that says the people born in 1990, that couldn't see their old in TikTok. And I was like, what's left for me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally. But, you know, it has radically changed, you know, from like, you know, like I will go to my father's office and like write letters and he's in the typewriters, you know, like he had, he had a computer, but his secretaries, we have typewriters and, you know, like how, how so much has changed and how many products have become. [31:49] um, [31:50] literally dematerialized in that period of time. So I was just really following this whole trend about that we knew and we identified in the white paper that we're going to see... [32:01] digital assets exit video games, right? Like they were now just confined within the silos of video games, but that's not the case anymore. We are now entering a space in which... [32:13] You know, via the power of Web3, they can enter and populate and exist in that intersection between the physical world and the digital world. So following the trend, I knew anything was going to happen and the technology was going to make it available. And then there were a bunch of creators emerging. They were all of a sudden creating fashion products.

[32:33] Only digitally. It was a few people, but they were there. And I was like, if I don't do something about it, I'm going to regret it in the future. So obviously with Luxo, we are building the tools for people to build these applications. [32:45] But I was like, I also want to play a game. I want to build an application. As if you weren't busy enough, you know? As if I was busy enough. So I went to talk to Fabian and Fabian was like, [32:55] Listen, Marjorie, lovely idea. [32:58] I sleep, you don't sleep, which is true. So you can go ahead and do it with the extra five minutes. [33:05] hours that you get per day when you're awake and I'm sleeping. And I was like, sure, let's do that. And then I actually met an amazing person, Karina Grant, who became a co-founder. And we decided to sort of dematerialize and basically creating this destination for a cool digital lifestyle goods that people can go discover and purchase in a very easy fashion. Love it. Love it. And it's really a [33:29] easy marketplace and really gallery to buy, sell, trade and look at all these kind of beautiful garments. And I know that it will be one of the main first features on the Luxo blockchain as well. [33:43] Correct. So we, I mean, curiously enough, obviously, as I have a bit of access to our development and know what's up and I can trust it, even though it's in beta, we went ahead and all of our users have universal profiles on the background, even though they're running on the testnet.

[34:13] a lot because all of the sudden [34:15] It was very stressful, but all of a sudden, the theoretical exercise of the universal profile become... [34:22] a very practical approach. [34:24] like thing it has to work like we have this amazing launch with um [34:30] Karl Lagerfeld on the day of his birthday. We're going to have these assets [34:37] coming. [34:38] massive PR campaign from Carl Lagerfeld's team. [34:43] we know we're going to get a lot of users who are not Web3 people. Yeah. [34:48] we have to be able to manage that. And the sale was over in 60 seconds. [34:54] And most of the buyers were first-line buyers. So I was in New York. And then on our time Sunday in New York, it was 9 a.m. And I was walking to a meeting and I was like, [35:03] oh damn i'm gonna miss my own drop so i'm trying to get it yeah and um i pay with apple pay funny enough and i was so impressed of how easy it was it even impressed me and i was at a point still the product owner and i was like that's good news that is good news yeah and and and we realized [35:26] Okay, it is easy. People can just do it in less than 60 seconds. Like you can onboard a new user into Web3, even if they don't fully know it, that this is now a Web3 experience. They have done it. [35:39] So that was for us a big signal in the tech team at Logs. I also got to learn a lot from the feedback we were getting from the DMAT team and users. Yeah. I mean, and just for the audience, too, and the listeners, I mean, Dematerialized and Marjorie, they've done collaborations with Paper Magazine, Warner Music, Rotate, one of my favorite Scandi brands, Karl Lagerfeld, Rebecca Minkoff, like massive, massive brands. And so I wonder with that, too.

[36:09] But are most of the brands, when you release, you know, digital clothing collections, are they really seen at the moment from these brands as simply collectibles? Do they want these drops to be immediately used or applied, whether that's AR or, you know, played with on Instagram? How do the brands kind of conceptualize the why of putting a digital clothing collection out? [36:36] No, that's an awesome question. And I think, honestly, I always expected based on like reputation that is going to be the fashion industry was going to be like a bit more skeptical or close to this possibility. And since the beginning, since I started Luxo all the way through these years, my experience has been quite the opposite. They are quite open. And I think, you know, they learn a lot via what happened with e-commerce that literally people thought who's going to buy fashion on the internet. [37:06] everybody. I was going to say, I can't not do that now. Yeah. I only buy online. Yeah, me too. Only. Even if I go to the shop, I check it out, and then I order online. Yeah, yeah. It's just the way it is. And, you know, so I think they learned their lesson, and they're open for technology. And, you know, it comes sometimes from different parts. It may be some marketing strategy or, like, innovation strategy, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter because they're trying it. And I think at this point, they have understood that [37:35] you know not necessarily all strategies have been successful but they understood

[37:39] that all of these brands have understood, not necessarily, I'm not speaking of our brands that we work with, but in general in this space, they have understood that this is a trend that is inevitable, that is going to happen, that in a few years' time, [37:51] that Gen Alpha is going to be, you know, the ones who are out there consuming culture more than anybody. And they are more digitally native than anybody before them. And that they understand this stuff in a way that I only could aspire to understand. You know, I see it with my son. Like, he hasn't asked me for a physical... [38:11] Object. [38:12] since four years. Right. Like he wants either a piece of hardware to access the game or only stuff that is in the games, you know, and he, he does a lot of sports and he's a very outgoing outdoorsy person, but for him, this is the place he hang out with his friends in, in, in this court, he get it. Right. So I think they understood that the user of the future, [38:35] This stuff is not a hobby. This is not an extra thing. They're not doubting if this stuff is real, you know, or if it's valuable. They see it the same way any other stuff. [38:47] And for them, I think actually it's going to be more difficult to understand why people we see as luxury a piece of leather that you buy and does nothing for you besides carrying stuff that you could carry in a plastic bag. So, you know, these products, they are in a way, they're more luxurious. You know, they have a lot of craft machine involved in it. There's a lot of creative process around with them, but they also upgrade through time. They don't get, they get better.

[39:17] and you have it, you own it, and it's very likely it's going to get better. And I think, you know, the Dematerialize were super, super keen into utility since day one. Like, you bought this, then what? What do I do with it? And then for us, it's like through the life cycle of that product, how long it might be, you need, which might be forever, you have to be able to offer your users something that is of value. And those products can upgrade. And that's the beautiful thing. [39:47] But brands are really open to, like extremely open and they understand it. And we've been lucky enough to be able to collaborate with some of the most amazing ones. I was going to say the top notch ones. And I think, you know, even with the digital fashion, it almost puts more pressure on the brands to be exceptional. Because as you also wrote in one of your latest mirror posts, you talk about this post-purchase experience and that there's limitless possibilities basically in that. [40:17] the new opportunities that Web3 Fashion creates for consumers. Because as you said, it can continue to provide that utility and it can continue to provide dynamic experiences, whether it can, like, you know, an NFT, even if it's a digital clothing item, it can be a ticket. It can be an access pass. It can be a loyalty points. It can be any and all things. So the stakes are almost higher and people will be continuing to look to you who's been such a pioneer in this to guide

[40:47] That totally makes sense to me. And you also mentioned, and I really wanted to get this into the podcast to make sure, about this term digital craftsmanship. In a Vogue article that you were just recently interviewed in, again, casual, you talk about how digital craftsmanship is such a real thing and is often equally as complex or as detailed as traditional weaving or dyeing. [41:17] digital clothing piece. And how do they compare it to, say, you know, a Birkin bag or, you know, a jumbo flap Chanel or, you know, one of these kind of highly coveted pieces? [41:30] Yeah, well, that's another awesome question. And, you know, I think we underestimate it by the fact that something is digital. And yes, if you make a mistake digitally, it's easier to use control set and voila. You know, it's... [41:45] It doesn't mean that stuff is better or easier because you make them digitally, right? It requires... [41:52] if not equal, more like the creativity is as you were saying, right? Like in the physical world, we have clearly limitations. There's gravity, that's already, you know, and then there's like physical limitations, time limitations, a lot of constraints. When you go in the digital world, technically you are like in this space where anything and everything is possible. And within that limitless world of possibilities, you actually have to perform. You have to like bring something, right? Like this is not, this is not supposed to be a simulacro of like the physical stuff.

[42:22] It's supposed to be a true original. It has to be something completely different. And it's the ways in which it satisfies a function is in different ways than physical products do. So then there is open a huge opportunity, but there's also a challenge, like you have to bring your A game in terms of creativity. But then also in terms of like the resolution and the amount of detail and how deep you can go, you can really go super, super deep in the details of a digital good, right? [42:52] simple simple example when we did this this amazing carl agarfeld dolls um [42:57] you know, the choreographer team was impressed because the digital dolls, they have more detail than the physical ones. Because the physical one is a doll, right? But the digital one, if he's wearing a t-shirt, it's actually a shirt. And like, you could see the simming, all of the details. Like, some of them have a fan because Carl was famous for his fan. And then the fan had all of the details. So, you know, like the amount of detail of every product is amazing. [43:22] It's very high-resoluted. So I think that's kind of like number one. And we know we're moving towards a space and a future in which, you know, computing power, internet connectivity, all of this stuff is just getting better and better and better. And then we will be able to hopefully see these products in all kind of moments, right? They might be juxtaposing our physical reality any time now. And then you will be able to see them again.

[43:52] they might upgrade. So I think that part of like how, [43:56] different, like how you can see the difference between a creator to another, the amount of detail that goes into each product. Like these are not AI generated images, right? These are creators who sit there and [44:10] You know, a lot of these softwares, especially for clothing, [44:14] You know, the most used ones, they have great like clothes simulation. [44:17] They actually support their design for the traditional fashion industry. So this stuff is like creating patterns at the same time. And, you know, the designers have to think in 2D and 3D at the same time. [44:28] So there's a lot of skill that goes into it. And, you know, I think, [44:32] As humans, we have passed the point in time in which, you know, value is only attached to something via its... [44:40] physical properties. Absolutely. And then we know most things in the world, the value is not the sum of the parts. So I think for these digital assets, they are [44:50] incredible complex um and i'm always in awe we work with some incredible designers and you know i honestly just wish we would have more time just to invest in creating you know more like of this amazing impossible things that i know they can do [45:08] Yeah. And I mean, I think that kind of overview that you gave, it just shows the massive innovations and possibilities that can be made around digital craftsmanship and the storytelling and the dynamism that you can engage with through building these digital garments and what fashion houses can do with that.

[45:38] You've worked with a lot of big traditional fashion brands. And with that, I wonder if you see the direction of Web3 Fashion and the leaders in that being more traditional, big brands. [45:51] fashion houses or that there will be new specific Web3 brands that will really trailblaze. Because what you're talking about in terms of the upside here are very specific skill sets around design, around vision. So I wonder if the traditional brands are too entrenched or, you know, you do see big opportunity there as well. [46:12] Okay. I love this question. And I always give a really unpopular answer to it. But it depends on the listener if it's popular or not. But I do believe the biggest brands of the future, they don't exist yet. And I do think, you know, a lot of existing brands, of course, they're great. And I think, you know, some of the bigger groups, they're doing a really good job into, you know, embracing technology and trying things and really staying with the site guys and moving forward. [46:42] I do believe that if [46:45] I think the problem is going to be talent. And I think the talent is not going to join this team. [46:51] these brands anymore as much as they did in the past because the dynamics have changed and me as a fact creator i have the possibility of enter the market and all of my ap and just put stuff out there whenever i want i don't have to deal with any politics or whatever it is or feedback from from my boss or the ceo gives me targets i just can go ahead and do it myself i think a lot of the best creators will do that and they will go

[47:16] to the market. Also, when they're very young, you know, you may have superstars, people by the age of 14, you know, and the talent dynamic will have changed. I think some of these heritage brands, as amazing as they are, they might have a challenge attracting the right talent. And I think cultural... [47:36] is the cultural developments are very specific and i think [47:40] it would be i think we will come a point that it will be virtually impossible [47:44] for somebody with a management degree to understand what's up and make a strategy that satisfies that relationship. And honestly, I do believe [47:57] that via this democratization that technology allows us to have, and this access and making stuff abundance that used to be not abundant, that used to be scarce. I think all of a sudden we're going to see all of this amazing talent enter the market. And I really cannot wait when the top designers of the world are like... [48:15] boys and girls or anything in between for places like utopia rio de janeiro caracas haiti who just entered the market and are killing it and that's a future that personally makes me really excited and and i don't necessarily think these brands are going to disappear i do think a lot of brands are going to disappear if i'm quite frank but i think a lot of the very powerful brands will still be there but they will be there for other reasons and potentially their market share will become smaller and the cultural relevance will become smaller and they will still be there [48:45] And that's fine. There's space for everybody, but the world is changing. And that's the cool part. Exactly. I was going to say, it just, it opens up genuine new possibilities. And actually what Web3 promises around web,

[48:59] really empowering people that aren't at the centers of power traditionally, particularly in the fashion world and the tech world. And, you know, with what you're doing with Luxo, I hope that we'll see a lot more people coming on because that's what you're going to be able to create with what you're doing. Amazing. So, [49:16] I love that answer. Last question. As the wrap up, you mentioned you're a mom. [49:23] You also run two companies and are the CEO, are the founder. So how do you manage all of this at once in terms of creating this visionary way in which you're dreaming up the future of how people operate in Web3 while also dealing with an extreme amount of pressure? A lot of people are answering to you. So how do you manage all of it? [49:51] Well, Blake, I try my best. And you're doing incredible. You're so kind. Thank you. No, honestly, I think, you know, as women, we face a different set of challenges and also of responsibilities. And, you know, I do... [50:07] I do have a lot of energy. I know that. And, you know, I am, as a lot of people in the new world, I'm very optimistic. So I don't, you know, even if I have failures or small setbacks, I'm always like, okay. [50:21] we can do this, which obviously really, really helps. But I think it comes down to [50:28] team that helps you organization and like don't lose in the eye on the price right like i think we get busy and then we we sidetrack or we get occupied on smaller things so i think it's about keeping your priorities straight i mean of course i don't go out a bunch like my social life is limited but honestly it's not like i really want to go out much i enjoy my work more than anything

[50:58] just making sure that we are following our intuition, your gut feeling, listening to your own voice. [51:04] knowing that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing and like, don't be set back for, um, [51:10] because stuff are not going your way temporarily. I have realized that it's [51:16] it's primarily seems to be a resistance game because it's sort of very, it's very psychologically sometimes intensive when you are working on something and you think, am I delusional because I am giving my own work. I'm making my own stuff up. Like, I don't know if people agree with me. There's no blueprint and you have to push it. There's no way. Like if you don't push it, nobody's going to push it. So I think it's, it's about like making sure that you are truly convinced about what you're doing it and why you're doing it. And yeah, [51:45] have uh don't be afraid of of saying that you don't know something or don't understand something or that you are struggling like i do tell my team like i'm having a hard time today i'm gonna stay in [51:58] And I... [51:59] It's okay. [52:01] I'm going to work by myself today. Tomorrow we can have the meetings again. And make sure that you have that time for yourself to kind of like set back and think. Because I think that's a problem, especially when you're a founder, like a lot of people [52:12] I, you know, [52:13] They need you for direction. And then you neglect the time to do your own thinking. And I think it's like always prioritize a little bit of like... [52:23] solitude to think and make sure that you're going the right way and like, surround yourself with good people and with podcasts and with books. Yeah, no, totally, totally. And I mean, you know, what you mentioned before, one of the main ways in redefining luxury or the truest kind of definition of luxury is space, space to think, space to live, space to be, and kind of

[52:53] as possible to continue to move forward. [52:55] It's funny that you say that because I have this quote from this book that I got yesterday from a friend. Oh, Rick Rubenbook. Awesome. Yes, The Creative Act of Way of Being. And the first page says... [53:06] a quote by Robert Henry that says, "The object isn't to make art, [53:11] It is to be in a wonderful state which makes art unavoidable. [53:16] Inevitable, sorry. That's it, man. Like you just have to play the conditions to like, so you can do your stuff. Like don't be difficult on yourself. [53:26] Like just... [53:27] Create the right conditions. Try your best. [53:30] Okay, well, Marjorie, I know that we are at time. This has been an incredible conversation. [53:36] Thank you so much for being here. I can't wait for everything that Luxo and the Dematerialized are doing. I really appreciate you being here with us today. [53:45] Thank you, Blake. You're the bomb. Thank you for having me.