(Exclusive HQ Tour) Inside Opendoor on Earnings Day

[00:00] Modern companies become like very meek, they're afraid of themselves, like it's wartime. Public markets were created such that average Americans could have a say in their companies and could actually pick companies and invest their dollars in capitalism. And most companies do this thing where they use the word retail investor as though it's a swear word. We're deeply proud, genuinely deeply proud that Opendoor is one of the most broadly held companies. Not many companies really get a chance at a second or kind of third birth like this. [00:30] matters so much. But to have people who have been here for a while is recognizing how broken the existing process is and the fact that we believe that our solution is not just important to our customers but to America like generally. If you were a door what kind of door would you be? I'd be open Molly come on. [00:56] Kaz, welcome to Sorcery. Thanks for coming by. Let me show you around. Long time coming. [01:02] It's been... I'm a fan! I'm actually a fan. I'm really excited to have you here. [01:06] Um, [01:07] Welcome to Open Door San Francisco. So where are we going? What's the plan? I'm going to show you my messy desk. Okay. But also, we do these... [01:16] the merch for every earnings call. [01:19] I like to get like [01:20] that my assistant literally packs them and sends them out. [01:23] Like, this is like literally them... [01:25] We try to get them out before the earnings call because I wear a new t-shirt on every earnings call. So your team is literally physically packing this right now.

[01:35] Do we have any other merch? Is there like a... [01:38] when you choose that on a merge, [01:40] but there's some over there. [01:42] That's my desk. You can actually see my desk. This is your desk? In the middle of the open office? Yeah, no, it's like... [01:48] of actual death because there's always random books on it [01:52] Um, these are like [01:57] It's like this shirt I'm going to wear. That's my shirt that I'm wearing at Learnings Call. [02:00] And it operates. [02:02] Oh, yeah. [02:04] We have like more. [02:06] It's actually hilarious because like everyone has seven jobs here. Like everyone has like multiple jobs. Alright, we're merch shop today. We're merch shopping. These are like open door caps. We have the open army. Oh wow, you guys are making blazers? [02:18] Yeah, there's like, actually like, dude, like the merch is cool. [02:22] Yeah. [02:23] I'll take you to [02:25] Don't look there. [02:26] Okay, is that not legal? No, we both... [02:32] When I got here, there were no dashboards on the wall. Uh-huh. [02:35] I'm like, "Fuck that. Lots of dashboards, please." [02:37] So we bolted. That's the actual model that is running one of our war rooms right now. [02:43] And I guess it's hilarious because our chief growth officer [02:46] tracks them and has them sticky. He says, "Grow more!" And he puts them under one of our charts. He's like, "I'm focusing on that year week." [02:53] That's a hilarious thing. [02:56] Um, [02:58] Just for context, this is Day of Earnings. This is Earnings Day, your financial open house. Yeah, it's Earnings Day. It's like, well, we're actually going up in like a couple of

[03:07] hours. [03:08] That's our head of engineering with his dog. [03:10] Thank you. [03:11] Wow. Very intense. [03:15] Um, [03:16] Our lawyers were all, I think these guys were in a room last night [03:21] I think literally these three people have not left the office in a week. I'm not kidding. [03:25] I don't think I'm actually being a relatively bit serious. [03:28] When did the deal get done? [03:30] God. [03:31] Thank you. [03:32] 2 a.m. [03:33] And I think they've been up, I'm not kidding, for like three or four days. You guys look good. [03:38] And then [03:40] Here, I'll show you. This is my conference room. They're not going to hang out that long. [03:45] Um, a sword. Oh, you actually have a sword? No, I'm not kidding. I wasn't kidding. Oh my God. As an homage to, like, Elon. We all have to have swords. That's so funny. [03:57] So it's like, like, [03:58] You think I was kidding? I'm like, not kidding. It's like, it's like real. That's great. And you keep it in yours? [04:05] I mean, like, so you know what the hilarious thing is? So I wanted to get throwing stars. [04:10] But they're very illegal in California. I would imagine. Like you cannot have throwing stars in California. [04:17] So that's the weapon. How old is this sword? Oh, it's not old. It's an Arabian sword. Actually, hilarious story. [04:25] I told my assistant [04:27] uh i want a sword i'm just going to show you the flak thread i said like i want a sword [04:31] She's like, [04:33] She's like, "Is that a question mark?" 'Cause I think she thought I had a typo. She's like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "No, this sword, please."

[04:41] No, I think, look, um, [04:43] I think the very real thing that happens is that [04:46] like modern companies, [04:48] become like very like meek. [04:51] afraid of themselves. [04:53] Like it's wartime. Do you think it's important that [04:57] the best public company CEOs of sorts. [05:00] I mean, Elon has one. Alex has one. [05:03] I have one. I'm not going to say we're all the same. I'm not saying that we're all similar people with friends. [05:10] similar styles and similar companies. [05:14] I mean, other people might say that. [05:16] But... [05:17] Yeah, I think weaponry is important. It's actually very real. Like most companies, [05:22] That's just like [05:23] one of the saddest things about capitalism is that if you go back to the start of public markets, [05:31] Public markets were created such that average Americans could have a say in the companies and could actually pick companies and invest their dollars. [05:39] in capitalism. [05:41] And most companies do this thing where they use the word "retail investor" as though it's a swear word. We're deeply proud. [05:50] I'm genuinely deeply proud that Opendoor is one of the most broadly held companies. [05:55] in America and I think he actually does an important thing which is [05:58] The average American believes in our mission. [06:01] because the average American thinks it's unfair that people can't afford a home to live in. [06:06] that a system is stacked against average people having average jobs,

[06:11] So now we're like, [06:13] Like we're not hiding it, like we're deeply proud of the army. [06:16] And I think everyone in the company is like, if you actually walk around, you'll see people wearing army jackets and army shirts. [06:22] And it's like army swag all over. I love how Keith once tweeted it out, spelt incorrectly, because it's the workout class of egos. It is. I think the motto is it'll be army till 82. It'll be double A army till 82. Sorcery is brought to you by Brex, the financial stack trusted by more than 30,000 companies, including one in three venture backed startups in the U.S. Nearly 40 percent of startups fail because they run out of cash. [06:52] to help founders avoid that. Unlike traditional banks that let your money sit idle, chipping away at it with fees, Forex's designs help you spend smarter and move faster. Their all-in-one solution combines checking, treasury, and FDIC protection into one powerful account. You can send and receive money globally at lightning speeds, get 20 times the standard FDIC coverage through their partner banks, and even high yield from day one. With same day and [07:22] anytime. Companies like Scale AI, DoorDash, Service Titan, Hims, Anthropic, Flexport, Robinhood, and Plaid trust and use Brex. Start today at brex.com slash sorcery. That's B-R-E-X.com slash sorcery. Turing is training the next generation of AI with tasks that require real expertise and real world judgment. That's why companies like NVIDIA, Anthropic, Salesforce,

[07:52] Turing builds realistic reinforcement learning environments and data systems based on real operational traces, the kind of infrastructure frontier labs need to train superintelligence. Visit Turing dot com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. All right. So we're here with Judd, Michael Judd. [08:12] And we're going to talk a little bit deeper on Open Door lore, because he's been here the longest. [08:19] So... [08:20] Judd. [08:21] What is it like? What is it like? It feels like a book with many chapters, but none of the chapters have been [08:29] exactly the same but with a common fruit line see i joined in the fall of 2016 we were in two markets i'm one of the very few people here who actually remembers the days when keith was in the office every single day oh my god so yeah there's just a small handful of us there but uh no i started my career in new york in finance and really didn't have any plans to like leave that world but i always kind of had in my head like you know if there's something that really speaks to you that [08:59] kind of like making a leap on, sometimes trust that instinct. And yeah, it's fall 2016, this little series B company, Opendoor was revolutionizing the way that like homes were bought and sold in America. And what really like resonated for me was, [09:12] I could explain this idea to my grandpa. He would understand what it was and understand why it was needed. And so that was kind of what initially drew my interest. Once I kind of like dug under the hood and saw what they'd built so far and what the kind of vision looked like, I figured, hey, this might be worth, you know, shipping across the coast and trying something new out on.

[09:33] And yeah, obviously, as you've kind of been able to tell from the kind of outside lens, there's been, you know, ups and downs and, you know, kind of in equal measure here at Opendoor over that decade or so. But what I feel really grateful for is, you know, with kind of CAS coming online and just the momentum that came from this past fall, you know, not many companies really get a chance at a second or kind of third birth like this. [10:03] so long and what's kept the people who have been here for a while is recognizing how broken the existing process is and the fact that we believe that our solution is not just important to our customers but to america like generally and just having again another chance at you know kind of cracking that code is uh just something i'm really grateful for [10:24] I'm just so curious from a cultural standpoint. So you're head of IR. Yep. [10:29] But I've also heard everybody here has multiple hats. So what other roles do you have? And is that like, what is it like working here now under Kaz and that transition? It's been pretty incredible. Yeah. So depending on the day, it's investor relations. I kind of came up doing capital markets, a little bit of corporate development, some finance and strategy really just kind of depends on the task for the day. I think what's been really remarkable and what Kaz has honestly taught me is that we're

[10:59] So when Kaz came in, he joined at the end of September, [11:03] And we did our Q3 earnings call just a couple weeks later. And, you know, before Kaz, we had done things pretty much, you know, by the books. We had the boring, just, you know, dial an audio call. It was, you know, a shareholder letter with like very like basic script. Kaz came in and day one was like, guys, we're doing video live stream. I want to stream it on Robinhood, which we were the first company to actually stream our earnings on Robinhood other than Robinhood themselves. You know, we're getting rid of the shareholder letter. We are going to do, say, Q&A. [11:33] I would have thought that [11:34] we could do one of those every quarter and like that that was like the most that we could do. But Kaz set a high target and said, "Hey Judd, [11:42] I know that, you know, this sounds like a lot, but I know you guys can do it. And sure enough, you know, we got to production. It wasn't without some long nights and some stress along the way, but we were able to get that done. And I think what was really important about that is kind of conveying to the people who are paying attention to our story and who are giving Opendoor a second chance. Is that like if an IR team of one is able to pull off all of these changes in like five or six weeks, imagine what our engineers are doing in that time. [12:12] what are kind of AI enabled and AI built, like ops folks are able to build. So the idea is that like you're often more capable than you would think you are if you set like a quarterly cadence for yourself. [12:24] Why is it so important to innovate on IR in such a digital world now? No, I mean, you know, you and your audience, I feel like are a great testament. It's, you know, I don't.

[12:37] Retail is a word that I feel like other companies refer to with a different taste in their mouth. But for us, our mission is to... [12:47] changed the way that like Americans like think about their houses and they got such a core kind of just part of the American dream and so with the advent of this summer and the you know kind of heightened attention that the business got I think that us being able to show that we can meet the narrative where it is rather than asking the narrative to kind of come to us on these boring more institutional more kind of classic like Wall Street forums and really feeling like people have [13:17] how management speaks and kind of what kind of questions we answer. And so I think for us, it's really about just continuing to drive the transparency and acknowledge that this second birth came on the back of people believing in us. And so meeting those believers where they are, rather than forcing them into old Wall Street corners. [13:38] What's the hardest challenge you face? Keeping up with Kaz, honestly. The pace is pretty incredible. And I think, like I said, he kind of pushes each of us to expand what we think we could do, both in terms of the quality of the materials and, you know, just the different hats. Like I was saying, I used to have a few hats. I'd pick up more with Kaz joining, which is normally the opposite when a company grows like this.

[14:08] kind of the fuel to continue to get the things done that you can. So yeah, he sets a fun pace. - Is it cool to have an open army? What is that like? [14:18] Hey, it's very fun. I don't have a sword to, you know, lead them into battle. I just get to read the safe harbor disclosures at the start of our earnings call. But no, we're incredibly grateful. We certainly don't take it for granted. And I think that, you know, we launched that website, accountable at opendoor.com. And we really believe that because we want to be held to account. One, again, because we recognize how critical this community has been to giving us a second birth. [14:48] at Open Door for 10 years because I believe in this mission so much and I think that you're still gonna hear me keep going back to it so often is that yeah the mission matters and so having people who believe in that same mission being able to hold us accountable is just kind of table stakes for the way we talk to our community. [15:06] Seeing what you've seen with a company [15:09] sink down to [15:12] a 50 cent [15:13] share price, almost get delisted. [15:16] Get resurrected. [15:17] and then go full speed ahead. [15:22] How do you think about all of these other companies that are in Zombieland that need some sort of like Hail Mary to get to the next state? What kind of companies do you think are going to fail and what do you think? [15:35] I guess, to reposition it, what do you think is most critical for companies to accelerate and meet this next innovation cycle? Look, I think for us, or at least from what I've learned, like in my experience, it's we got this tremendous opportunity from this community that found us on the back of a couple of years of beleaguered stock price and declining sentiment.

[16:05] from it and so you know not what happened to us isn't going to happen to every company but every company should have their mission and you know hopefully the employees there believe in what that business is building and when that you know mindset gets picked up from an external community whether it's you know institutional investors or a retail community or the media or you know [16:26] you know, kind of existing employee base. Like it's don't squander that opportunity and don't like run away from it. It's like lean into where people are believing in you and continue to earn their trust as, uh, as they kind of put it in you. [16:40] Since you are the arbiter of compliance, what is the most exciting thing that's going to get launched? [16:47] Look, I think what, you know, when Kaz became CEO, we were all excited across all these dimensions, you know, just... [16:55] you know, [16:56] the quality of the work that he did at Shopify and like his brand recognition. But I think what's really powerful about what he built over there is what he did on the merchant services side of the business. So Shopify kind of precast was mostly a software business. And by the time they left, it was [17:12] the software no one else could kind of compete with on a price basis. And then they offered so many value added services on the other side, that it just created a real lock in, but also providing value to the people on that platform. And I think at Open Door, we have an amazing opportunity ahead of us for we have 1000s of people who use our product to either buy or sell their home. And in the Open Door 1.0 model, there really wasn't a whole lot we kind of like did with them after or

[17:42] I'll let Kaz do the product launches, but I think [17:45] him taking that same mindset of [17:48] So within this customer transaction, what else can we do that is going to be helpful to help you move on to life's next chapter? Because there's just so much that goes in with moving on to life's next chapter. And I'm just really excited with what we're kind of building on that side of everything. [18:04] Okay. [18:05] Lastly, [18:06] If you were a door, what kind of door would you be? I'd be open, Molly. Come on. Why are some of these doors closed? [18:12] Well, I'm also the head of compliance, so there's sometimes I have to close them. [18:18] Thank you, Judd. Awesome. Thanks, Molly. Some of you may not have heard this yet, but our sponsor Public just launched something called Generated Assets, and it brings AI into investing in a way I've honestly never seen before. Here's how it works. You type in an idea like AI-powered supply chain companies with positive free cash flow or defense tech companies growing revenue over 25% year over year. [18:42] that scan every single US stock, evaluates them, and instantly builds a custom index around your thesis. What really stands out is how clearly it explains why each stock is included. And before you invest, you can even backtest your idea against the S&P 500, so you're making decisions with real context, not just guessing. And beyond generated assets, Public lets you invest in stocks, bonds, options, crypto, all in one place. They'll even give you an uncapped 1% match when you transfer your investments over from another platform. If you want to build a portfolio [19:12] actually reflects your thesis, visit public.com slash sorcery paid for by public investing. Full disclosures in the description.

[19:20] Founders ship faster on deal. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast and get back to building. Visit D-E-E-L dot com slash sorcery. That's D-E-E-L dot com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. [19:50] We have very [19:52] - No, let me know. [19:54] Windows. [19:54] Thank you. [19:56] Thank you. [19:57] - Thank you. [19:58] that we must have more leadership better. [20:00] Thank you. [20:01] I don't want anyone to focus on the fourth thing. [20:04] Like, these are like... [20:06] The requirements stated must all be fully fulfilled in the order they were stated. [20:12] Right? [20:13] Like I don't want [20:14] Like before we move to number three, number one and two to be true. [20:17] and I'm okay with number 4 being 0. [20:20] Yes. [20:21] In fact, it's actually fucking ideal that number four is zero. [20:25] Because no one will-- [20:29] If something looks kind of good, it's very easy to ignore it. [20:32] But it looks like shit, we will never ignore it, we'll fix it eventually. [20:36] So please don't-- [20:40] wallpaper over holes is a bad idea. [20:42] like fucking hoses fine. [20:44] The most important thing for all of us to do is make it very that order. [20:49] So that's exactly what we are trying to say.

[20:51] So, [20:52] We are going with the priority. So the first two ones are the priority for us. [20:56] The last one is more. [20:58] I'm not saying it's subjective, it's more experience driven. That's an ongoing thing. [21:02] So-- We'll get back to it. We'll get back to that. For all, our primary focus is one and two. Make it air friendly. [21:11] Probably next two weeks we'll spend more time testing this. My unit test for this will be this, to be very clear. I want to be very transparent. I think it's important to have a unit test for sure. [21:19] like it might have been good. [21:21] Like my unit test will be this. I will take a page that is not on Bricks next. I will take the URL. I will take a screenshot. I will go into fucking cloth. I will say, this is the URL. This is the screenshot. [21:31] giving the output [21:33] Oven and Bricks next. [21:34] If that works, I will stop complaining about this. [21:38] That's what we did for this test actually. We did like an AV. [21:42] and like was... [21:44] Yeah, but you guys did a thing that lots of people had eyes on. [21:47] I'm going to find the jankiest, shittiest page we have on Briggs. Do the ground to radicalism. [21:52] you know, like we sand out the edges. I think the point more is like, [21:56] This is great for people that are very in the details on all of this. Let's make sure that the person that has never seen Bricks Next and loves solicitation on the phone for our designers. [22:05] engineers as well of like [22:06] Take the hardest use cases that we know are going to break. [22:10] See if they break. [22:11] And if they don't, come back and see what's wrong, what do we fix? [22:15] That's the goal. And can we talk about tailwind for a second? [22:17] my continued [22:20] yelling about the importance of monorepos.

[22:22] and demanding of the-- [22:24] OK. [22:25] It's not me saying, "Rail is great, monorefos are good." I'm not going to exist on technical choices around here. [22:31] like [22:32] - Can we stop people to talk? [22:34] I'll just nag them enough. [22:37] Okay. [22:37] Um... [22:40] I am very bullish on feelings. [22:42] Wait. [22:42] because I'm very bullish like [22:46] Right. [22:47] I watch YouTube videos at night of people building websites with Tailwind. [22:51] I'm very bullish on it. [22:53] Like once we're all done with this thing, [22:56] I want someone to tell me why I'm not failing. [22:59] Can I say something about Taylor? [23:01] In the group that I assembled to kind of explore this problem in the past week, [23:06] There are actually a lot of huge tailwind bands, very much like you. [23:10] We start something from scratch. - Can I watch the guy build Nalbert's website? [23:13] It's the most fucking insane thing. [23:16] Watch the guy rebuild Albers in tailwind. He does the entire thing end-to-end live in 45 minutes. [23:21] It's a Christmas holiday. [23:23] Anyway. [23:24] In this group, there were a number of folks who were like, [23:26] I love Taylor Winniador, starting a project from scratch, that's what I would use. [23:30] But then everyone was in unanimous agreement that we have something that works today. And hopefully in the demo we show you that we're actually very close. And it's like... [23:40] We shouldn't be throwing that away. [23:42] Yes, we like Tailwind. [23:45] but we will still pick [23:46] his approach of investing. - I mean, I want you to put yourself in a falling position. Imagine that we're hiring a 22 year old grad

[23:54] actually even better, a 20-year-old dropout out of San Diego. [23:58] This kid was at CMU for a bunch of years. He's like, fuck this. I hate this shit. I'm going to go work at a window. [24:03] what would be the stack that would make Matt care happy? [24:06] If the answer is, guys, Taylor would be as marginally better, but not that many, I don't care. We should not move stacks first. [24:13] Thank you. [24:13] Yeah. [24:15] uh... [24:16] What we should do is just like [24:18] maximize upfront pain. [24:22] Does that make sense? I do-- like, the thing you did just broke my brain. [24:26] Well, these things also permeate marketing, LCM, [24:29] a bunch of landing pages. [24:32] So that should be a consideration too, right? How do you mock cells serve? You don't want Morgan having to talk to an engineer to build a landing page. Morgan needs to build his own landing page. [24:42] And like, [24:43] And I think that's where we have the bonus, I believe. [24:46] that were pretty solid. [24:48] Okay. [24:49] We need to get different landing pages and stuff because it also requires [24:53] SEO center. [24:54] So [24:55] this is right though. I wouldn't wait up. I wouldn't wait up. I think I would wait. [25:00] My experience with Open George's Lightning Page was my first [25:03] Saturday or Sunday where I was like [25:05] Raging up my keyboard at these two. [25:07] A career speech, yes. I was in a parking lot updating HTML. I'm like, why can't I change this fucking page? Stop! [25:17] So like-- [25:18] I think we've made progress with that. Actually, for what's with the fucking--

[25:25] CMS we use content for technical technical. You actually have a decent summit. [25:29] Seems to have gotten better. [25:32] So... [25:33] Thank you. [25:34] I just don't want to [25:36] Don't worry about SEO stuff. Don't worry about-- [25:39] Like the goal of landing pages is this. [25:41] They must be perfectly instrumented. [25:45] I think you'll just spin a lot of them up very quickly. [25:48] and we cannot lose UTM from our parameters. [25:50] Those are the three things they need to do. [25:55] On the topic of instrumentation, Bricks Next actually has native [25:58] um integration with journey which is our basically our [26:02] Analytics. [26:04] Why is the discrimination coverage so high-pissable? [26:06] for that. [26:09] Or isn't it? Maybe your precision-cad is perfect, it's not bad. [26:14] No, it didn't work. [26:17] What percentage of our players do you think are well-instrumented? [26:23] I think they're all instrumented. It's that consistent instrumented. [26:26] Well, I want to put back at this time, [26:29] like our side of the e-commerce website, like the timeline between a seller coming in to [26:35] the whole going on resale is like multi-weeks, months. That's where stuff gets confusing. [26:42] Hey, um, [26:43] This was helpful. Thank you. I appreciate it. [26:46] Cass, please no call. [26:48] questions. [26:49] Um, [26:51] We thought the best thing to do was to show, not tell. We went through the doc, I think. OK. We had spun our wheels. Thank you. Thanks everyone who worked on it.

[26:59] Um, [26:59] When should I run a unit test? [27:04] You can try right away and, you know, [27:07] On a really fair point. [27:09] We can do it today. Let's choose a page. [27:11] Broaden it beyond. [27:13] K-A-S to it. [27:14] - A bunch of people that are not the people that worked on this should go do it. Including like I went [27:20] Apparently not. [27:22] the entire Poland team to really get some reps here as well. Make sure that we're-- Do we use bricks next for buyer facing stuff too, or just [27:29] Thank you. [27:29] We do like [27:32] I'm for native. [27:34] No, no, no, no. [27:37] By Airbnb. [27:38] Looks like so. [27:40] What are you saying later? [27:42] We don't. [27:42] use anything. I don't, I'm not. Well we've got one, we've got one app. [27:45] But that's sanctified. [27:46] But then, essentially, it's [27:49] It's just the styling of the app. [27:50] So BricsNex allows us to have kind of [27:54] right once run everywhere across and React Native, but not like the-- We're not going to have a React Native fight again. Dom will fly here from Poland and beat me with my own face if you have a React Native fight again. Dom is going to fucking play. He'll have a bad reaction. Yeah, so React Native is very done for Dom's reaction. Okay. And for what it's worth, like if we're not going down the React Native [28:18] path, then the tailwind path is actually kind of feasible because consolidating on the bricks next, we're on one design system. [28:26] Tom, you found a friend. Someone has found another reason why it can't have React Native in my company. The bones that it's on is an open source library called Tamagui, which is this whole web and React Native bridge.

[28:39] we can move away from it too. [28:42] something else. [28:43] Once we're on board. [28:45] I think we can just call it decision made right now. Yeah, it's fine. [28:49] It's fine. It's fine. This is fine. Let's just move to the next one. Okay, cool. [28:53] Anything else? Do we have anything else to cover today? [28:56] - Okay. [28:57] How do you get access to this problem? [29:01] We are-- [29:02] Uh... [29:03] Brits next is definitely [29:04] break it. [29:05] I guess based on Ubisoft for customer-facing [29:09] Yeah. [29:10] No dude, for internal stuff, let's not do that. Let's not fight ourselves. [29:15] Thank you. [29:16] Like it's just totally not fucking worth it. [29:20] I feel... [29:21] I had a conversation with it, but I think it was Pauline Al had a conversation with. [29:25] Like... [29:26] So many of our internal facing stuff are better designed than like our external facing stuff on top of bad APIs and bad databases. [29:34] Like that's not like, that's just, [29:36] It's like we take the internal facing stuff can be just like whatever blank, like whatever thing you want to grab. [29:41] Let's work on the API layer. [29:44] Yeah. [29:46] Not so secret anymore? No, no. It should remain secret. Has Dom flown here to beat you up too over this? [29:56] Thank you. [29:56] Right. [29:57] Okay. [29:59] Just as an example from mortgages, because obviously we weren't familiar with, [30:03] I think Tamagui or Herbert's next. [30:05] I think we wrote 400,000 lines of code. [30:08] I think we only wrote

[30:09] three or 400 by hand. [30:11] MR PRICE: Yeah. [30:13] It's not always like perfect. [30:15] And then internally-- How dare you. 400 out of 400,000 was not perfect. [30:21] Um... [30:22] - Uh... [30:23] and the internet dashboard we'd go. [30:25] um [30:27] I chose to use Tailwind Go. [30:29] Yes, sir. [30:29] Yep. Way easier, faster, way simpler. And it just rips everything. Can we just do that, guys? Can we just make that call? Can we just make the call for internal should we use Tailwind? [30:38] Yeah, that's the same at Tyler Lasker. [30:41] Let's hold on to that, we actually have a [30:44] We did research on that. What we looked for in the past [30:51] or LLMs. [30:52] to make sure that the employee can still serve when they are working. [30:55] Dom, I'm not, uh, I am very willing to be told Kaz you're wrong on this, but I would like that in a doc, like, at the more than two pages of why I'm wrong. [31:03] What I don't want to do is wake up two years from now [31:08] and accidentally have a team called [31:12] internal platform design system. [31:15] You wouldn't have that. Like, I would die of the film to not have that. OK. We had that to hear. I know. [31:22] It's making people strong. [31:23] - I know, okay. [31:25] Cool. Hey, anything else? [31:27] No? [31:28] Um, hey Chris. [31:31] Well done. [31:32] I think it's the fastest [31:35] mortgage launch in the history of, when I got here, [31:38] You would have to. [31:39] I was told it would take us two years to launch a mortgage product.

[31:42] I didn't say that, but yes. You didn't say it, but it was said in that loop. It took us 10 weeks. [31:53] Thank you. [31:54] What was the first line of code? [31:55] We can do it. [31:57] January 5th. [31:58] January 5th till February, whatever the fuck date today is. 90. 96 weeks. [32:08] Alright, now go congrats, do as well. Thanks guys, thanks team, cheers. [32:17] I think we have one. [32:22] - We'll have some buffer time. [32:24] I'm going to show you next time. Thanks guys. Thanks. [32:28] - Hi. [32:29] Thank you. [32:30] something in that. [32:31] Yeah, we're going to have the-- [32:32] It works. [32:33] into the second. [32:35] I'm sorry. [32:36] I must go one more time. [32:37] Yes, my wife. [32:40] Yeah, I'm getting that. [32:42] Okay. [32:44] yeah [32:53] - Thank you. [32:55] Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, Sorcery.vc, where we deliver a once a week top deals and tech headlines email and also go deeper on our podcast interviews. Subscribe to Sorcery today. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple or wherever you listen. Link in description to sign up.