Feelings Check-In: .Swoosh, Bluesky, Going Full Time

[00:00] I think you could call it [00:01] tech news oh my god let's not call it that immediately turns off the podcast it's homework the show welcome to the feelings check-in a feelings first look at the news of the week takes no one asked for on topics everyone's talking about i'm natasha hoskins i'm dina burke and this is boys club wait is it just boys club it's just boys club the boys club podcast no [00:30] No. [00:31] Just boy stuff. [00:32] Hi. Hey. [00:34] Okay. [00:36] So we... [00:38] Our voice club. Indeed. And this is a podcast that... [00:44] that [00:45] Many of you who have been listening... [00:47] will understand that we're evolving. This is an evolution. [00:51] but do want to... [00:55] give a little context. [00:57] for where... [00:58] This podcast is going. [01:00] where we're headed. [01:01] spiritually emotionally yeah i don't want to say audio lee audio lee dramaturgically i don't want to bore people is my fear yeah so let's let's go quick okay and i also don't want to like i also recognize when we're being too navel gazey and people are like shut the fuck up about your own thing yeah you know like i mean they are listening to it i know but like we're like talking about the podcast on the podcast is like a lot of it's a lot so yeah we're gonna keep it brief we're gonna

[01:31] - Thank you. [01:32] We are getting more consistent. [01:34] Can you growing up? And we are going to be dropping two episodes a week. [01:41] Forum from Boys Club. [01:44] Forever. Forever and to the end of time. We're going to be dropping interviews from people building on the new internet, and it is going to be learning and... [01:52] and interesting about topics, conversations, builders, creators, founders, people who are doing interesting things. [02:00] coming and talking about a topic [02:02] and their perspective on it as an expert. [02:05] Yeah. Also, I want to say like just – [02:08] for the content strategy nerds in the room. Yes, great. Shifting a little bit from inviting guests on to talk about their thing. [02:18] to... [02:19] inviting guests on to talk about a thing that's happening in the world that they're expert on. Yes. So I'm not coming on to shill my project. Yes. [02:27] I'm coming on to talk about Bigger Point. [02:30] Talk about what's Bitcoin doing? I don't know. Yeah. Let's invite this guy on to talk about it. We're back with some feelings. But what we're doing is we're tweaking it a little bit where we're still checking in on our own personal lives and feelings. But we're also checking in a feelings check in on like the news of the week. Like we're going to be like, okay, these things have happened. [02:52] In the world. [02:53] And this is how we feel about them and how it makes us feel in relationship to our work and our lives and our relationships and boys club. Yeah, I do want to clarify. One time we asked the question, like, what...

[03:05] Do you want from the voice podcast in the discord and this amazing woman was like, just please, for the love of God, don't make it another crypto news podcast. Oh, it's not that. And I just want to say shout out to her. Yep. That has that feedback has stuck with us. Yeah. This is going to be more feelings first. Exactly. And if you can handle it, if I can handle it, honestly. So like. [03:30] I don't know. Well, for example, Blue Sky, decentralized social or alt social media is happening right now. How are you feeling about that? How are you feeling about it as it relates to... [03:42] Um, [03:43] Our media business? Our media business, certainly, but like also just as a [03:47] Your average lady living in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Exactly. [03:51] Just... [03:52] Fair warning. [03:54] Some of the takes will be wrong. [03:56] *laughter* [04:05] Okay. [04:06] So we're going to dig into some news and some feelings that we have on the news. Okay. Where are we starting? Dot swoosh. We're starting with dot swoosh. Also so tough to say. [04:15] Dots. Whoosh. Um, this is Nike's digital fashion arm. [04:22] Zooming out for people who do not know anything about the dot swoosh [04:26] world or Nike's [04:28] experimentation here [04:29] This started... [04:32] Really, they put a mark in the sand in around like December 2021 because they acquired a company called Artifact.

[04:40] Artifact coined themselves as the supreme... [04:44] of the digital fashion world. [04:45] Supreme of digital fashion, digital sneakers and digital fashion, which is essentially just NFTs. And they did this really good job of sort of merging fashion and gaming and do have a very distinct perspective. [04:58] Like, [04:59] brand and vibe. It's very dude-centric, but like... Sneakerheads. Sneakerheads. That was acquired December 2021 by Nike. That was like signaling to the world, okay, Nike's serious about the metaverse. They're serious about Web3. They want to experiment in the space. So then... [05:15] Fast forward a few months. [05:18] From there, [05:19] Nike launches dot swoosh, which is essentially like... [05:23] They're... [05:24] virtual studio aiming for web three curious consumers and building out a roadmap that definitely took from artifacts sort of playbook. [05:34] So that's happening. [05:35] And then everybody gets a dot swoosh, like, or not everybody, but they gave out invitations to their email list. And there were about 300,000 invitations to a subset of their email list or their followers, I guess. My husband got one, which I was like, cool. I was like, you've got to do it. And he was like, okay, not into NFTs at all and gets his dot swoosh. He can get a wallet with his email address, like very smooth, very much aiming towards somebody who's fresh to the space. [06:03] Okay. [06:04] Then fast forward to this week. [06:07] They do their first airdrop. So this was a big deal because it's signaling to what they're going to be doing and what

[06:14] what they're interested in building out with this sort of program. So the airdrop... [06:20] what they're calling digital [06:22] Uh, posters, virtual posters. So virtual posters, they do not talk about NFTs anywhere in any of their documentation. They're very much trying to remove themselves from the toxicity of NFTs. So the virtual posters, there's four of them. [06:39] And they're calling them the OF1 poster collection. The OnlyFans one. [06:45] Bye. [06:46] No, it's horrible. It's horrible. [06:49] R Force One. I hate the name so much. [06:54] Fucking stupid. But anyway, we're moving past that. That's their... [06:58] Decision and error. So these posters, like, four posters, you should go look at them. [07:05] They're very cool looking. They definitely have a futuristic vibe, but borrowing from all sort of Nike ad campaigns. [07:13] and Air Force One, original Air Force One posters, and people who are into sneakers and that culture. That's very iconic, those looks. So that's sort of cool. What the actual NFT airdrop is, [07:26] I'm so sorry, virtual poster airdrop is about, is it's essentially a mint pass. They airdropped just over 100,000 of them. [07:35] So about a third of their holders got a poster and they are a mint pass to, uh, [07:42] a [07:43] a collection of digital sneakers that you can buy.

[07:47] So the digital sneakers are, it's actually not a digital sneaker. They said digital sneaker box drop coming soon. It might just be the box. And then I'm sure they're going to build on that with them. They're like selling the box, selling the leases, selling the like soul. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Exactly. Exactly. [08:06] The reason why I think Nike is doing dot swoosh, it's innovation and all this stuff, whatever, but like. [08:13] My take is, okay, [08:15] They have this scarcity problem or not even problem. It is good for someone like Nike that they produce less than they would be able to sell because then there's demand. There's all this buzz, whatever. [08:28] The problem is they can't control secondary markets. They lose out on all this money that they could have retained themselves. [08:34] But like it's worked for them. [08:36] There's a world where digital ownership and collectibles solves for this in an interesting way, where they can start to control the scarcity through... [08:44] basically token-gated purchasing. [08:47] In order to do that, they have to create sub- [08:50] sections of their consumers and subsections of their audience to drop specific things to. And so with this box, like my hypothesis is they're going to Russian doll this thing. And then it's okay, the people who have this and this and this get this and the people who have this and this and this get that and you're creating demand for each one of these individual digital products. [09:09] posters [09:10] to unlock... [09:12] potentially something physical if this is what they're doing, where they're like creating this demand at every single point of the experience of engaging with Nike in this digital studio.

[09:22] So anyway, they're going to be $19.82. [09:28] That feels like a nod. This is a nod. This is a nod. I think it was, yeah, the original... [09:36] cost of the Air Force One when it first came out. [09:38] You have to pay in USD. They are not accepting digital cryptocurrency to pay for it, which is interesting as well. So. It's for someone who's totally new. It's for a Nike consumer. [09:49] It's not for Web3. And honestly, kind of... [09:52] Kind of balls on that. [09:54] Totally bullish on that. This is my... [09:57] This is my feeling. [09:58] Of this. What's your feeling? [10:00] I found it impenetrable. So complicated. I had to do quite a bit of digging to like really understand what was going on here. I don't really understand that when it's so clearly designed for a non... [10:11] crypto native person. But on the flip side, [10:15] I've been having this feeling... [10:17] a real bearish feeling about this, about the industry. We're all talking to each other. It's all the same fucking people in the room. Everybody's trying to convince themselves that we're doing something important here. And it feels really... [10:29] uninspiring to be in that energy. And so-- [10:34] This was really encouraging. Nike is such an iconic brand. And to see them experimenting in a way that is clearly... [10:43] Um... [10:44] designed to bring fresh people into the space and to... [10:48] explore what it means to have digital goods and how that relates to people who have a deep love and interest for Nike and their brand. So that was really encouraging to me, even though there's things that I...

[11:01] uh, [11:02] aren't for me about it, but overall... [11:05] Interesting stuff from Nike. Yeah, I think that [11:08] I think that it was very dense, very hard, very lots of layers, very hard to understand what was happening. I think that it appeals very much to a sneakerhead and very much in an industry and a vertical where... [11:22] That's [11:23] scarcity is designed to... [11:26] keep it afloat and keep people interested and powers all these secondary markets and all this stuff. [11:32] I don't know that if I'm Rhodes... [11:35] or road rather Haley beaver's skincare line. [11:40] I don't know that you can port over what Nike is doing to a consumer brand where they're [11:47] a more traditional consumer brand where you're, [11:51] Just pushing product. Yeah. Because. Yeah. Yeah. [11:55] what this structure relies on, [11:58] is... [11:59] people... [12:01] Insane demand. [12:02] insane demand. Yeah. Insane demand. And so I think it's going to be really great for a certain type of brand. [12:09] But I think for 95% of brands. [12:12] you can't use this type of structure to... [12:14] incentivize your customers to participate in something. [12:18] So that's my take. I totally agree with you. I don't think it's going to be a blueprint that many other people can follow. [12:24] I think a very, very, very small. [12:27] set of brands are looking at this and thinking, oh, that's how we're going to do it. But it is a way for Nike to extend their reach into...

[12:35] this [12:37] hyper gamified culture that exists around their products that, like you said, a lot of that energy is going towards secondary markets that they don't get a cutoff, presumably. Maybe they do. But [12:48] This lets them have the laces and the sole and the shoebox and all of that be a line item on someone's P&L that they can... [12:55] Keep total. [12:56] Right. [12:57] And that have zero... [12:59] costs. Zero. [13:01] Like that $19. I mean, obviously infrastructure and team and stuff like that. Totally, totally, totally. [13:07] There's no, there's no, there's no plastic involved. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what's your story? What's your story? Okay. My story is blue sky. [13:17] Okay, here we go. Jack Dorsey. We have we have been birthed from Jack Dorsey's womb. So Jack Dorsey, do you find him sexy? [13:29] Um... [13:31] No, I can get other people's appeal. [13:34] Yeah. I can get his appeal, but I personally don't. I'm not really into facial hair, so... [13:39] Jack Dorsey has been building this, which is basically... [13:44] decentralized Twitter, but not in the way that you may think. We're not on the Polygon blockchain. We're not [13:54] Uh, [13:55] Are we on a blockchain? We're not really using a blockchain. No. We're using something called an authenticated transfer protocol. Oh, great. I'm tracking. Lincoln show notes.

[14:06] This is homework the show. It is... [14:10] A protocol, I don't know, whatever. I don't think we really need to get into the weeds on it. But basically, it's decentralized Twitter without being like we're – [14:18] were... [14:19] Shoving a blockchain down your throat. Blue Sky is invite only. It's still in beta. Okay. And much like all of these other decentralized social networks, much like Warpcast. Uh-huh. [14:29] or Warpcaster, which was... [14:31] previously forecasted are much like [14:34] Lens. Lens. [14:35] Leinster, um... [14:37] and mastodon, which the royal we are not on mastodon yet. Mastodon is like Trumpy, right? [14:45] No, I don't think it is. Oh, it's not. Okay. Okay. No. And then there's another one that's Trumpy. Truth social. Yeah. So all of these are basically emerging, smelling blood in the water around Twitter. [14:57] being a shit show. Okay. And so there's a market opportunity that is, uh, [15:03] evidenced by [15:04] there's a new decentralized social network popping up every day. And basically the main value prop for all these social, all these new, [15:12] networks that are popping up is there's no elon musk there's none of elon's musk on us we are free from a [15:20] like tyrant maniacal uh poorly managed thing that's happening over at twitter so what's the value the blue sky value set like why i'm sure unsure okay but the cool people are on it right now okay okay cool people are getting on it this is my exposure to blue sky [15:36] Yeah. It was my feed-

[15:39] Which is mostly crypto Twitter. [15:41] So... [15:42] All these people in my feed are posting screenshots of like a zero follower count [15:49] social media and I'm like why is everybody so lame it's so embarrassing and I was like what is this and you were like blue sky it's social signaling that you have an invite [15:58] Because it's like hard to get an invite. Totally. And I'm about to do that social signaling myself. Okay. Oh, I thought the invite was for voice clover. Oh, maybe it was, but I used it for my personal. I needed to get Dina to Blue Sky Social. Okay. So I went through the onboarding process and the first question it asks is, [16:16] Who is your hosting provider? [16:18] Oh my gosh. Do you want the hosting provider to be Blue Sky or do you want to like do it yourself? Oh, you know what? Another decentralized social network. [16:24] is erbit erbit's another one of these so like if you were signing up you could say erbit is your i don't think you could say erbit but i think you could say i'm going to spin up my own server literally fucking kill me who's totally totally 95 99 of people are clicking the blue sky note but they want to tell you as soon as immediately yeah immediate mentee yeah this we're different um so that's interesting and it's kind of like is this going to be the new normal because that was also my experience [16:50] trying and failing many times to set up my urbit, which was like, where do you want to be hosting this? And I have never thought about hosting before in my life. And now we're forced in this new world that we're in to be thinking about hosting, which I guess is the point. [17:05] There, once I got in past that and said my name and all this stuff, very much like Twitter.

[17:10] We're in a clone. We're in a clone of Twitter. Okay. What an interesting... Oh, sorry. Go ahead. There's no... [17:18] Signing transactions. So if you've ever been on Lens, one of the experiences that you have is that you need to sign out every transaction. Although I know that they've sort of abstracted that away, but there's, you're just... [17:27] You're firing it off. Okay. So I know this is a stupid question, but I don't understand... [17:36] What decentralized social media is? I had Stani's really helped me understand lens as its own thing. [17:44] I believe blockchain, now I'm questioning myself, that like you can build [17:49] daps on top of, and the value proposition is like you're getting... [17:54] You own, you as your wallet, own your followers, own your – and you're porting it over to these different apps. How that shows up in those apps is sort of up to the founders and creators of the app. But I get that. You can port over following, which is huge. Yes, huge. And you – that you're – [18:09] Yeah, you're [18:10] never going to get shadow banned and lose your [18:13] Whatever. I get that. [18:15] I don't understand what makes this a decentralized system. [18:20] social media, especially if it seems like there's no like blockchain component, which is exciting to me because the main thing about Lens that terrifies me is I don't want things that I say to be on a blockchain. I don't want them to be. [18:33] memorialized [18:35] onto the internet for the end of time. Like Natasha G Hoskins on Twitter. Check it out. You'll understand why it's not meant.

[18:42] It's not canon, OK? It's not canon. So it's interesting to me that it's not on a blockchain. But I don't understand how something is decentralized without blockchain technology. That's the main question. So I totally agree. I think I learned more about this when I had the conversation with the Urbit guy. [18:59] the angel from Urbit, Galen. [19:03] And basically, it's like... [19:06] It's the difference of being a tenant to... [19:09] owning your own home on okay on urbit or on blue sky or on any of these other ones like [19:16] your [19:17] You own the land that you're building on. Okay. [19:20] And in the case of Blue Sky, like that's expressed through this idea of hosting. Okay. And it's similar in Erbit, though, I think a little bit different. [19:27] versus [19:28] Leasing. [19:30] Leasing versus renting. Okay. Where on Twitter your [19:35] just a tenant. And... [19:37] that you're subject to the whims and follies of the person who owns the land in that case, Elon Musk. Oh, my God. That's a simplification. But I think that's like that's so helpful. That's incredibly helpful. OK, so if you're someone who cares about. [19:54] then Blue Sky might be the place for you. I think also another big reason why people are flocking to Blue Sky right now is because there's [20:01] an arbitrage moment where there's a new social network that's coming up and you can... [20:07] - Be first. - If you're first. [20:08] And you can like... [20:11] some outsized...

[20:13] recognition and follow by being present on something that's on the up and up. I think that that's what like Charlie dim. [20:20] Charlie D'Amelio. Yes. Moment. Is that her name? I think so. [20:24] - Nice. - TikTok, most followers on TikTok. - Exactly. Who's going to be the Charli D'Amelio of [20:29] Blue sky? We do not yet know. But the game is yours to play. The idea of Charli D'Amelio being the Charli D'Amelio of blue sky. Also, is that her name? I think. I think. [20:39] Someone told me that. Charlie D'Amelio. Someone told me that, um, [20:43] She has a show, her and her sister have a show on Netflix, and a friend of mine watched it and was like, it is so you and your sister. And I'm like, I'm offended. Oh, wow. Why is it you and your sister? I have no idea. She was like, oh my gosh, you guys like. [20:57] You look like her. Your dynamic is like theirs. And I was like, what? Wow. They're like 13. That's quite the thing to say. I didn't want to check it out now. Okay, so my feeling on Blue Sky is... [21:10] The feeling that I have. Can I have one other take as to why there's this flocking thing? [21:15] The checkmark. [21:17] The blue checkmark of Twitter is gone. The verified. [21:21] The unpaid verification. [21:23] is gone. [21:24] Um... [21:27] And people are like really upset, which I don't really understand. I guess if I'd like fought [21:31] hard one verification. I would care, but I'm just like, [21:35] it's embarrassing how much people are talking about it. I think there's like kind of a cool take. I've seen a couple of cool girls be like, [21:42] were... [21:43] We're naked now. Like we're indie now. And like, like me had like a really funny tweet about it, which which honestly like really landed. So there's there's not everyone's upset about it. So we're playing it really cool. And it's landing landing for them.

[21:55] Totally. Okay, so what's your feeling? [21:58] - Um. [22:00] My feeling is a little overwhelmed that we need to be on all these places and see who wins. [22:07] And just hope that we made the right bet. [22:09] Yes. I was on Farcaster for a couple of minutes. [22:15] did some posting there. You actually had kind of a viral tweet on Farcaster. Yeah, I said, can you GM here? And people loved it. [22:21] No, not that one. The one where you put the picture of Hailey Bieber and... Oh, oh, I forgot about that. Or no, I was like something that it was a picture of Hailey Bieber and Selena Gomez, the iconic shot recently. And I was like polling Farcaster, like, does anybody know... [22:37] what this means, what this represents. And like 95% of the people didn't. And I was like, okay, this is not the right place for me. [22:44] It was actually like a test, but it did get quite a high engagement on it. It did get high engagement, yeah. It was really a very funny post. So I was on the Farcaster, spent some time there, and... [22:56] And... [22:57] I've never, I've not returned to it though. I intend to at some point. Um, [23:02] I know... [23:03] Ted. Taylor is really into Farcaster. And I do trust her judgment. She's someone who's had outsized... [23:10] uh, return from being like on a new platform early. She was like thousands of followers on, on our webcaster or forecast or whatever it's called because she was so early and yeah, [23:21] Anyway, so then Lens we post on. I like it. I found that there's a lot of bots on Lens, which is... Isn't it the whole value proposition? Yeah, I kind of thought so. So there's like a lot of like body stuff that has been happening on Lens for me. So that doesn't feel great. Although I do think that they're working to improve that. And then...

[23:43] Now, Forecaster, I have not [23:45] It's too much. There's too many. It's just too much. And also, I think mostly it's like they're not different enough from each other. Yes. It's text-based social networks. Yes, yes, yes. [23:55] We're doing the same thing on all of these platforms. Preach. [23:59] So I guess it's like, I think it's going to take some little tweak or some innovation in the product that like makes one of them really special and different and sticky in order to get me personally to stay. I don't know if they care about me personally, but that's what it's going to take for me. Like some sort of like disappearing crypto influencer at me, Tina. [24:20] *laughs* [24:21] is calling it's a war cry to these so that's that's my feeling okay so yeah my feeling my feeling is [24:29] is... [24:31] *sigh* [24:33] I totally agree with you. [24:36] I go to these other ones and I'm just like, [24:39] Am I saying the same thing that I'm saying on Twitter? Am I posting the same things that I'm posting on Instagram? There needs to be like a be real conversation. [24:46] version yes where there's like oh there's an innovation to your engagement what i'm watching or what i'm what i'm consuming what i'm putting out there that is distinctly different from these other platforms okay jack if you're listening jack dorsey yeah one shave the beard get rid of it maybe he's doing it on purpose what's his face from um seinfeld george from seinfeld has this episode where he becomes somehow hypnotized and stops being interested in sex and women

[25:16] a different person where he's reading and he's intellectual and he's smart and like he's like he's this whole other world because he stopped thinking about sex and he's a totally different person and then by the end of it he starts attracting all these women and then he falls back into it and he's back to being a loser. [25:30] Maybe this is Jack Dorsey's way of like staying focused. [25:36] Uh, so yeah, shades of beard or don't, maybe that's the tactic. And also... [25:44] Put something into Blue Sky that's like a little novelty. Yeah. A little novelty and... [25:49] You might get Natasha G. Hoskins and me, there you go. [25:53] Yeah. [25:54] okay that was the feelings check-in for the news from this week i want to leave space for your feelings because you've had a big transition i haven't talked about we haven't talked about we did record a podcast on it and then it fell too intimate so we did not i forgot release it well actually i was like can you listen to this and tell me if it's too intimate and you never got back to me so it never saw the light of day [26:24] Yes, I, Natasha... [26:26] Um... [26:27] I have, I'm full-time voice club. [26:30] I've quit my day job. [26:32] And now I'm on as of two weeks ago. [26:36] A full-time, the first boys club full-time, not employee. Not employee. Because that means health insurance. We can't deal with the overhead. [26:46] but increased my hours and have left my other job. And that brings up a lot of feelings, but I don't know if they're interesting to people.

[26:57] I'll say... [26:59] is that... [27:02] It is... [27:04] Exciting? [27:05] It's really incredible. Like... [27:07] how much... [27:10] your, my like brain space. [27:14] is opened up when... [27:15] All I have to think about all day is boys club. [27:18] your shower thinking, [27:20] You're commuting thinking... [27:22] You're... [27:23] making dinner, all of that stuff is... [27:26] myopically focused on [27:28] This thing. Mm-hmm. [27:30] Which is... That might sound toxic. [27:32] incredibly toxic as I'm saying it out loud. But like, I have this difficulty balancing things. [27:39] I genuinely believe that's what's required to unlock... [27:44] the step change for boys club like yeah we are [27:48] Doing great. I love this business. This is not a business. I love this community. It is a community. That's what it is. A brand and it's community. Everybody that I've talked to has been like, I love Boys Club. Oh my gosh, I'm hearing about you guys everywhere. That's incredible. I'm so excited by that. [28:02] We do not have enough income into this business to sustain our salaries. [28:07] not even salaries, but like pay my rent. And that's the reality of this business today. And it's taking this like amorphous blob of an opportunity and forcing it and molding it and shaping it into an actual business that has revenue streams that are sustainable and reoccurring. And we've talked about this endlessly on this podcast, but like there hasn't been for either of us, the amount of mental capacity and space to really unlock the

[28:33] the Rubik's Cube that we have been working on. [28:38] I have a hard... [28:41] uh, time balancing, uh, [28:44] I do think what is required to get there, like starting a business is amazing. [28:49] incredibly hard sustaining a business is incredibly difficult and that only happens when you are obsessed with it i genuinely believe the only way that like incredible things [28:59] exist and are born into the world is people behind them [29:03] being obsessed with that thing and being relentless and figuring out how it is produced into the world. [29:09] How do you balance that against having a healthy relationship to what [29:14] my ambition, my dreams and desires for boys club, [29:18] And it's really difficult to not just go into an anxiety spiral around anxiety. [29:24] the work and around the, [29:27] all of the things that we want to do that we think we should be working on. [29:32] to get to the next inflection point for voice club that's not... [29:36] a step up, but like a step change in the way that [29:41] Boys club exists in the world. [29:42] Thank you. [29:44] So that's what I'm thinking about. That's what I'm feeling. [29:47] Are you in an anxiety spiral? [29:51] I hope not. I don't think spiral feels too... I feel myself fighting it. Like... [29:57] I feel... [29:59] it's like right there. Like it would be very easy to just like fall into that and be like,

[30:06] just really anxious and [30:07] relate to the work in an anxious way. [30:10] And [30:12] I am not there, but it's taking quite a bit of self-discipline. [30:18] Do not. [30:19] Do that. [30:20] And... [30:21] I have the muscle memory from previous businesses of what that feels like. I know what that is. [30:27] is when it's happening. So [30:29] I'm thankful for that. [30:31] experience because I can look at that and be like, that's not a productive way of thinking or a healthy relationship to the world. [30:37] I thought this conversation was going to go a little bit differently. I thought you were going to say, "Now I have all this time." [30:42] to think about boys club and to think about try and figure out where the business is and trying to take this amorphous [30:48] opportunity blob and force it into, and, and, [30:53] that [30:54] is such a gift. [30:55] It is such a gift. I thought that's what you're – you went there. You almost landed the plane on that tarmac, but then you pulled it back up again and went, no, I'm going to land at Teterboro. I was about to land at Teterboro. [31:08] No, I'm landing at Newark right now. Right, right, right. So – [31:13] Yeah, I just want for you to recognize that you do have Teterboro at your disposal to land at, which is the non-anxiety spiral. This is an opportunity. You have now time and space to potentially unlock Teterboro. [31:24] something and [31:27] that is an opportunity that doesn't, it does not need an anxiety spiral. We're not at anxiety spiral levels of anxiety.

[31:36] Levels. Levels. Totally. You're right. You're absolutely right. And I do think that you have that. I totally do. It depends on the hour. Yeah. [31:42] Depends on the moment that you're talking to me. Highs, highs, and low lows. [31:49] 100%. Yeah. [31:50] So that's the feeling. [31:53] That's happening for me right now. Great. [31:59] Dina, where are we going to be in September? We are going to be at Permissionless in Austin, Texas. Permissionless too. It's happening and we're curating the culture track for the conference. So if you're into the stuff we talked about here, you should come and have a good time with us. So email your boss, tell them that you need to go and buy your ticket now. They will never be [32:23] in our Discord for Boy Scout members. Ooh, come hang in Austin. [32:28] Friends. [32:29] This is where we make an ask. We're in our call to action era. It's CTA times. Rate and review this podcast. Subscribe to our newsletter. And if you're feeling extra generous... [32:42] Send it to one friend. Thank you for listening. We love you. Bye.