The Browser Company Is Building a Brand That Drives Viral Growth - Ep. 32 with Nashilu Mouen-Makoua

[00:00] I was fighting with ChatGPT. At one point, I was doing a lot of writing at BrowserCo. And so I was like, man, if ChatGPT can take this off my plate, and it would come back with like this crazy tone. And I'd be like, this is really cheesy, or this is just not working for me. And the three ways that I found that it helps me, one is just as I'm in free flow. The second is external prompt for writing that I'm actively doing. And then the third, tightening your language with a very [00:30] I wasn't trying to replace myself. Basically, I was trying to improve the work that I was really doing. [00:47] - Nash, welcome to the show. - Hey Dan, good to be here. [00:52] So good to have you. We have been friends for a long time and I've been an admirer of your work for a long time. And so it's really, really amazing to get to have you on the show. For people who don't know, you're the head of storytelling at the browser company, which is the maker of ARK, the ARK browser, which I use all the time. I'm actually using it right now to record this episode. I'm also a tiny, tiny, tiny investor. So I'm invested in your success. Everyone should know that. But yeah, it's great to have you. It's good to be here. Yes, I feel like we've [01:22] at this point. [01:23] We have. Yeah, we first met when you were working at First Round Capital and I was doing a little bit of an angel fund with them and we've stayed connected ever since. So the thing I wanted to start with today, we're going to get into some AI use cases, but the thing I wanted to start with today is I am a gigantic admirer of the work that you've done at the browser company.

[01:53] aesthetic and it's different and new and it's like refreshing. It's like I've never really seen a technology company do [02:00] like storytelling like this. And I wanted to talk about that. Like, I want to talk about how you, how you think about it, how you put that together, how you make sure that everything's on, on the vibe, how you even articulate, think about the vibe. So let's start there. [02:12] Perfect. I think the first thing that I would say is even the examples that you've given, [02:20] It's the feel of the team in many ways. And I think that one of... I remember when Josh first approached me and we hadn't even landed on the name storytelling yet. It was like, there's this role. I think that it feels like it has your name on it. And then we landed on storytelling. And I was like, I feel like the browser company is pretty good at storytelling already, you know? And so like even the browser.company website, that was before there was ever a product that Josh and Nate had put that together. And so I think that there's something about the... [02:48] the dna of this company which is people who love the product they're building love the potential of technology but also love something outside of technology and so when i think of our storytelling i think of uh carla who leads brand and so a lot of the visual field and who's an artist who lives up in harlem with her family and brings a lot of external um feel to the work that she does i think

[03:18] the browser company. I think of myself. I love writing outside of BrowserCo. And so [03:23] I think that was always my biggest hope was that we would challenge what a tech company felt like and how it would show up in the world. And I think that that comes a lot from just having people who care about things outside of outside of this industry. [03:36] That makes total sense. And I love that you're bringing in the team, but I also want to gas you up a little bit. You're doing amazing stuff. Tell us about what you are doing, what you are bringing to the browser company, what storytelling actually means to you, and what part do you have to play in what you guys put out? [03:56] Yeah. So I think there's two things that I believe fundamentally in terms of storytelling. The first is that it always starts with people and it always has to do with people, whether it's the people that you're talking to, which the people that are creating your product. And so I remember in 2022, we were doing this presentation for the team. It was like six months into creating the storytelling team. [04:26] And one of the decisions was that we didn't really have a brand. It was people building a product. And so if you think about storytelling over the last three years, I'd say there's been like three iterations of it where year one 2022 was really, can we bring our team to the forefront? Can we be people building a product in a way that you're, you know, sharing behind the scenes in a way that's never been done by folks before?

[04:56] or how we're thinking about Swift on Windows or why we stopped shipping for a month. And it was always the team sharing the story. And so 2022 was really about blurring the lines between company and our members, as we call them, in a way that hadn't been done before. And then 2023 was really about thinking about inversion. And it's another thing that I like to think about is how do you invert the narrative? How do you take what everyone else is saying and do it differently or tell it in fresh and new ways? And it was really, [05:26] inverting how we did releases. And so if you think about our ArcMax release, which was in October, wave one of AI when everything was so big and world changing and it was like a year after ChatGPT had been released initially. [05:42] And we wanted to think about how could you flip [05:45] how AI felt to people and make it as accessible as like selling kitchen knives in a QVC TV show. And so it really is a lot of the time. Can you keep people guessing? Can you keep it fresh? Can you make it really personal? And can you invert what people's expectations are? And even this year has been a lot around how do we think about the next stage for our company and how do we tell that story? And again, how do you do a keynote that isn't in a black background room? What if it was

[06:15] expectation and really centering people. So I'd say those are probably two of my biggest things is people and inversion. And I love, we like keep ourselves guessing at the browser company too. And so not falling into what has worked will keep working for you. [06:30] that's so amazing you said so many things i want to follow up on like the the first one that comes to mind is thinking about companies as collections of people and telling stories from that perspective instead of sort of like this formless mass like i think a good example would be like um like at hurts like everyone wears the hurts uniform like they're not individuals they're like it's hurts it's the physical embodiment of hurts and it sounds like you're kind of like [06:55] flipping that on its head a little bit. Where did that come from? How is that coming out of your head or the team's collective brains? How are you coming to like, oh, I have this cool new way to talk about companies and storytell about companies and its individuals? Tell me about that. [07:14] So I think two things. I think at the high level and then really tactically one of the things that we do at BrowserCo, which I love. So the people first is also a question of, [07:23] It's strategic too, because what can our competitors not do? Our competitors are the Chromes of the world, the Safaris, which are part of Apple. And they're too big to center people. And it's too scary to center people because that comes with its risk of, you know, [07:38] people have their own opinions and they show up in their own ways and you lose a sense of, you know, of, of polish in some ways when you let it be spiky. And I remember one time I was speaking to a dear friend who

[07:53] led marketing for another company. And we were talking about our first big article that was going to be in a publication. And she was like, Oh, yeah, like, what is the thread? [08:00] across [08:01] the people who will be interviewed, what are they wearing? Are they wearing similar clothes? Is it the similar story? And I remember talking about it with Josh and we were like, oh, uh, [08:09] No, so-and-so is going to wear a knitted jumper because she loves knitting. And that's who she is. And so-and-so is going to wear a Hawaiian shirt if he wants to, because that's who he is. And that's the browser company. Like it is organized chaos in some ways. And it is an inversion of what you would expect as like the Hertz veneer. So I think at the, at the highest level, it, um, [08:31] I'm trying to think where it came from, from a like, it just felt more authentic, because I think that people are tired of things being overly curated. And I think that I wouldn't, I wouldn't still be in technology if it weren't for the browser company. And I know there are many people at this company from this is like their time to like build a build a product that they want to see. I would be out somewhere writing a book, which we've talked about many times before. So it was if I was going to do this role and stay in technology, it was to do something different and to really push the boundaries. [09:01] It's just about, I fundamentally believe it's about people. From a more tactical perspective, we have this meeting that I love called Writer's Room. And it's the storytelling crew. It's myself, Josh Lee, Cyrus, who works with us on video, Carla, who leads brands, Jess, who's a brand designer here as well, Devin on the growth team. And it's

[09:27] And what we do is we have two types of meetings. It's like a no agenda meeting. It is a feedback meeting. And so you can either like bring projects you're working on just to get people's thoughts. Or we have go wide meetings, which is where somebody has like a project that they're kicking off. And they just want to go as wide as we can and throw out the biggest ideas and pull from everywhere other than technology. And I would much rather we start here and bring it back to what's possible than start from what's possible and what we know and work our way out of there. [09:57] it is ArcMax or it is our Act 2 video this year or it is Boost. So all of those have come from a writer's room where you really give people the chance to go wide, pull from outside. [10:07] and then bring it into, okay, what are we going to do with that? [10:10] That's fascinating. How does that work? So when you're going to a go wide meeting, does everybody pull a bunch of references together or is someone who's the person who's presenting? Are they responsible for just like coming to the meeting with all the references and doing all the stuff and then everyone just reacts or how does it work? No, it will be something like, hey, I am a... [10:29] Hey, I'm kicking off this project. I'm, for example, one of the thoughts that we had, which we like never did was when we, [10:37] we were thinking about how would we want to tell the story of Arkham what's possible. And so it was a go wide meeting. Hey, I want to talk about this topic. Here's like a write up. I think it was Josh D and I who'd like collaborated on bringing this to the to the team. Here are the goals. [10:51] And I just want to talk about this for like however long we have. And then everyone will either read that the night before or come with some thoughts the morning of or do like a voiceover coming into the meeting. And then it's just it's riffing. It's like riffing for now. And the person is like taking notes. We were like, man, we should rent a storefront on Broadway and do like a museum of technology. And it's like chrome on the walls. And at the end, there's like a couple, you know, we didn't we never did that, but we would never have gotten to that idea if it hadn't been to just throw stuff at the wall.

[11:21] And then the person who's leading will take that and kind of be like, okay, cool. I'm hearing a couple of threads. I'm going to go and sit with what's most interesting. And I might come back with like three different directions. I'd love to push back on these three and I'm going to commit to one of them. [11:34] I love that. [11:36] And are there any other, any specific rules about how you do this, like in the meeting? Like, how do you, how do you keep things free flowing? Like, how do you. [11:45] how do you get people generating as much interesting stuff as possible? I think you have to [11:53] have a couple of key questions that you're bringing to the group. And a couple of key reference points. I think that folks always have like a reference point or two that they're bringing in. [12:04] And [12:06] you have to be prepared to lead the meeting in a way that you are poking, being maybe controversial. You can't just kind of leave it wide open. If you leave wide open, we'll still get good stuff. But I think that it is the... [12:18] We talk about look out for us, like what are your look out for us? Or if there's anything you want push back on, bring that to the bring that to the crew as well. [12:26] Another thing that you said when you were first sort of introducing how you think about storytelling is when you're doing, I think it was the Arc Max launch. You were talking about AI is currently like this currently like hyped thing that everyone's talking about. And you're like, we want to flip the narrative and we want to make it as accessible as buying QVC kitchen knives.

[12:56] Talk about that. Yeah. I think a lot of the product team's intention had been around, what are the small moments that we can make better in somebody's day? And the thread that that pulled was like, oh, what if it is it's giving people like less? I'll tell you even how we got there. It was like, okay, small moments of people's day, not big things. [13:22] can we just improve the small interactions? And so that was the product intention already. And then there was a question of, well, [13:31] And I think we'd had an offsite in LA that summer where we were talking about it. And it was like, is it they were giving people the opportunity to have less internet in a world that wants to give people more, et cetera, less internet? And what if we were selling people less internet? And what if we were selling them [13:44] more time and what if we were selling them literally software on a qvct and so that's kind of how you know and you land with like yeah actually we're going to sell it on a qvc show um and uh and it was a um [14:00] I think it's always been part and parcel of the browser company to [14:05] want to ground technology in something that feels really human. [14:08] And that was the, you know, I used to live near a, I think it's like the QVC center in London. I used to like pass it on the train. And so it's like always been a back of the mind thing. But even as Josh and I were talking about it, there's just like the, the, and it was like, Josh and I really think about it with Josh, a couple of other folks. Carla did the design for it as well. Like what are the reference point of like 80s TV show meets browser company. And, uh,

[14:36] what are the human elements that many people will actually be able to see and feel? And that's one that sometimes you just know when something's captured. That also to the question around writer's room, you know, when something's capturing the imagination of people around the table and like pull it. [14:51] Totally. I guess what I'm getting at or what I'm asking about is like, there's a way that people might say we want, like they might just say we want to make AI accessible. [15:02] Right. Like that's a, that's a pretty common thing that you might hear from a branding person or anyone involved in storytelling or marketing or anything like that. Yeah. And you're saying we want to make it like selling knives on QVC. Like that comes with so much [15:19] flavor and and evoke so much emotion and so many associations. And I want to talk about for you as a storyteller, like, [15:27] why that's important or getting to those like sort of really concrete evocative details? Yeah. I think because I don't come from the tech world in that way. And I grew up in [15:45] London, I was an English major. So I've always cared about like the stories of people, my friends in London are, you know, photographer or documentary or filmmaker. And so [15:59] I don't care to speak the language of what exists already. And what exists already as in like the language of this industry. And so for personally, for me, I would say if I'm telling a story that, you know,

[16:11] the people around me will not be interested in or not get. And that's, that's not exciting or interesting or, uh, motivating. Um, [16:23] And I think Carla and I have had this conversation a lot around like, yeah, you want your brand to make people feel something, but not just people around us only. And so I think that... [16:38] My sisters love Arc. I have three little sisters. They're 15, 19, and 20, and they're in New York at the moment right now, which is crazy. And they love Arc. And I want the people in my life to be able to understand and love this thing because this is part of the reasons I joined the browser company. It is such an audacious bet to build a new browser. [16:58] And that touches so many people. And so can you build a product? Can you build a brand that speaks to so many people? And that means... [17:06] That means making it really tangible and tactical. [17:11] make it feel like something you can actually put your arms around. [17:15] The last thing I'll say is we'd done this presentation a while ago when I just joined, which was, it was called Operation New York City. And it was thinking about our membership, our members of Browser Co. And New York City is the type of city where there's something for everyone. And there will always be the leading industries of whether that is finance or consulting or fashion. But there is something for everyone in the city. [17:40] And could ARC and ARC membership feel like the city that we're born of?

[17:44] where there is something for everyone and it can speak. You always have the leading demographics using your product, but it should feel like it speaks to there's something here for anyone. And I think that that's part of the fabric of this company and our story. [17:58] I love it. [17:59] I want to get into the AI stuff. Okay, let's do it. So I know you're using AI for some work stuff and some personal stuff. I also know that you've had a little bit of like an interesting journey with it where you found it's useful for some things and not useful for others. So like, so tee us up, tell us a little bit about where you're using it and then we'll jump into some use cases. Cool. Awesome. [18:24] I'm trying to think, but there's something about just like where AI is currently in terms of [18:32] the stories that are being told about AI. Faster browser company, you know, we've been exploring it since October of last year, right? And we've always been focused on the smaller parts of people's days. And I think that as we look at... [18:48] this [18:49] next phase for AI and what's possible. [18:54] I'm really excited. [18:56] for part of our story to be also, how do you tell a new story about AI? Because I think that if you really think about it, [19:01] all of the releases are always about companies, right? It's like, [19:06] New GPT 4.0 is about open AI. Gemini is about Google. And Lama is about Facebook. And there isn't room to really talk about like

[19:19] what are these products trying to do for people in the most intimate ways, but intimate as in the smallest ways? And I think that there is this fatigue around like it says it's going to do this, but does it actually help me to do this? And what can it actually help me to do? And I think my own journey was like that, too. And I'm like, man. [19:33] I'm missing this. I'm clearly not using this in the right way, but I'm really excited for what it means to invert the story. [19:42] of ai ticks it's not going anywhere it's really powerful it's really how i i was in kenya and my aunt was talking about using church ept for something right i love that and so what does it mean for us even as a company to think about how do you invert [19:56] Invert the current story because it's so big. Can you make it kitchen knives, right, but on a broader scale? [20:04] Totally. [20:06] That's all I got. [20:07] Just because I'm like, now I'm like, okay, I can't talk to you because I don't, you know, I don't want this to be like, oh, broads companies only building AI. Like, I think that it's something where we've really been thinking about, you know, how much do you [20:21] put like if you are building AI into your product and you know Hirsh, so you know we're really exploring what that can mean. Like how much, how do you own the fact that you are building maybe an AI first product or you know, whatever that may be, but without falling into the existing narrative because it's tired and it's fatigued and there is that weight around it. [20:41] I think that's one of the interesting things is like, um, [20:46] Most companies, when they think about participating in AI, are like

[20:51] Framing it around... [20:53] Keeping up? Yes. [20:55] um and that seems like a very different you're attacking with a very different perspective talk about that well i think that it's because um [21:05] Thank you. [21:06] It's coming from a place of keeping up and it's coming from a place of [21:11] measuring yourself against your competitors and what they have shipped. [21:16] not what can you deliver to people that is meaningful to them. And so that's a really good way of putting it. And so the audience is actually not the person who knows and loves your product. The audience is everyone beyond them. And it's a keeping up with the Joneses in some way. And I think the way that we've thought about it is [21:36] It's new Play-Doh for the same mission that you've always had. [21:40] you know, but yeah, I hadn't thought about it in the way of it is it's keeping up and keeping up is is [21:48] is for secondary reasons. It's not because it delivers, um, [21:52] what you want to for the people that you're hoping to build for. [21:56] totally and so personally how has the new play-doh how has it played out in in your work life [22:03] Yeah. I was fighting with chat GPT. I was like, drop this for me, please. And it would come back with like, because I was at one point I was doing a lot of writing at Browser Co. You know, it was our member updates. It was our internal docs. It was, um,

[22:23] And, you know, at one point, most of the words that you would see were coming from me. And so I was like, man, a chat GPT can take this off my plate and type in, hey, can you draft experts? And it would come back with like this crazy tone. Right. And I'd be like, this is really cheesy or this is just not working for me. And so I'd say there's three ways that I've learned to. [22:49] I'm a daily user at this point, Monday to Friday. I'm not really using it outside of work. But, and the three ways that I found that it helps me, especially because I care so much about words. And so it was really hard to delegate words. And I think that that's something with AI is like, what can you do for me that is helping me, but isn't trying to replace what I do that is good. And [23:10] And so the three things that I've started using it for, one is just as I'm [23:16] in free flow, in like, if I'm following an idea, and I'm doing research, and I want to bring some, I was researching the context behind Tracy Chapman's talking about revolution, [23:28] because of this presentation that I'm giving next week. And what was happening in 1988 and how does that relate to this other thread of the positioning of this other product in 1988, right? And so that's like the free flowing conversation that I'll have with ChatGPT. Like, how should we size this market, et cetera? The second is [23:47] kind of external prompt for writing that I'm actively doing or like variations. And it was actually one of my teammates, Dina, we were revving on one-liners and she was like, I've been thinking with chat GPT. And I was like, how do you think with chat GPT? Right. And she sent me her chat and I was like, oh yeah, this is an iterative experience. And then the third, which I'll say is the only time when I let chat GPT like change my words is this prompt that Josh came up with.

[24:17] is around [24:19] you know, tightening your language with a very specific prompt he gave it. And I actually put most of my documents through that. But it took me a long time to get to a place where [24:28] I felt that I was getting value and that it was, I wasn't trying to replace myself. Basically, I was trying to improve the work that I was already doing. [24:36] That's cool. Let's let's start with the first one. Like, I want to see how you're using it for that free flowing research. [24:42] Okay, so this is one example where... [24:50] We're developing a better understanding of like, who is ARC4 at its earlier stages. [24:55] And so this is a conversation. [25:00] just around the different subsets [25:03] that [25:06] We call ourselves laptop people in many ways. Like a laptop person is a specific type of person who is... [25:12] maybe going to the office, but primarily on their laptop. And so this is just like an ongoing conversation that I was having. [25:19] to just like dig a couple of levels deeper. So basically you've like, let's start at the top. So you've sort of come up with this like laptop person thing. [25:28] idea, you have the tag, you have the word already. And you're like, I want to, I want to sort of flesh this out and understand more about like who those people are. So that why are you why? Like, why do you want to flush it out more? Because we are [25:44] You know, the browsers are for everybody. Who are they for initially? And, uh,

[25:50] as we understand, as we think about it, it is for people whose livelihoods are on the computer, right? And what is it? This was, this was me trying to understand what does it mean to have your livelihood on the computer? Um, and there is livelihood on the computer in that I am going into the office every day. There is that I'm hybrid or I'm remote. And so just trying to get an understanding of, um, [26:09] Who are the people who... [26:12] should be in this audience that maybe we're not thinking of as being in this audience right now. [26:16] I see. And so you start with like how many people work remotely around the world. So I'm curious, like you could Google that. Why didn't you Google it? [26:23] Because now I'm in Statista and I'm in this other place and I actually have, I would much rather have a couple of websites summarized and because I knew that I wanted to do a deeper dive than [26:34] go through seven different pages that are giving me information in an un-nuanced way. [26:39] And so I knew that I wanted to go a couple of levels deeper here. Okay. What's Statista? [26:44] Oh, Statista is like, you know, if I mean, you look up like how many people use Mac or Windows? It'll give you, yes, it'll give you like a website with a graph. [26:53] And that's the end of the information. [26:55] Okay, that makes sense. Okay, so you asked how many people work remotely around the world. [27:01] And it's saying, you know, out of 2014, it's estimated that 35% of workers are working globally. So it's giving you like a little bit of an answer. And then you think, can you give me an estimate of what you mean when you say hundreds of millions of people worldwide are now working remotely? So like you're basically asking it to like go deeper in a particular way. [27:18] part of the answer it gave you. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Because if I'm trying to understand, uh, an initial target market, I needed to be much more specific than hundreds of, of millions.

[27:29] Okay, cool. And let's keep going down the chat. So it says, when I say hundreds of millions of people worldwide are now working remotely, I'm referring to an estimated range of 500 million to 1 billion people. So it's giving you a more specific number to work from. And now your next follow-up is like, which industries lend themselves to remote work more than others? So you started with this initial sizing. And then now you're kind of like, okay, I want to cut up [27:59] the kind of remote work industry into like, um, [28:04] industries that maybe are like leaning more towards that kind of work than others. Right? Yes. Because what I want to develop is, um, [28:12] I want to develop a hypothesis around... [28:16] at the most granular level, who is this person that we're thinking of? And and so part of that is, [28:26] What do they do? [28:27] Right. And there's only so far that I can think of what they may do. And so, yeah, the whole goal of this is to go from like a macro statement to actually being able to envision this person as we're doing research and meeting loads of different people who are ARC members and not ARC members. [28:45] trying to feel out the edges of the world here. [28:47] Okay. That makes sense. So you're saying which industries lend themselves to remote work and it says technology, what else finance and accounting. That makes sense. And part of this is that you want to speak to people in a way that feels like you're speaking directly to them. Right. And so this is just developing it. Okay. What are they doing day to day?

[29:17] so I can copy them into a document. I love that. I was like, this is great. I don't want the, thanks. [29:26] I think that like chat GBT's like reformatting capabilities are like actually really underrated as a time saver. Something like that, it's a task like that might have taken you like five minutes to do, but sometimes you have lists that are like, [29:40] gigantic and it just, it would take you like an hour or two and it just does it in an instant. It's so nice. It's great. Uh, one of the things that we've been using it for as well is, um, we've been experimenting with a podcast, um, called imagining arc that is just weekly diary updates from Josh and, uh, here's the transcript, make it into a two sentence description. That sounds like a description for X other podcast is also just like those types of tasks that, um, [30:10] So it gave you that list. And then so now you're getting even more granular with the list. It's giving you like the list of technology, finance, accounting. And you're like, okay, how many people are in those industries? And it's basically doing the research of like going to different... [30:24] articles and then [30:26] summarizing what it finds for you in one response. So you don't have to open up a bunch of tabs. [30:32] And part of this is also developing an understanding. This is much more fluid than if I were doing this research across different tabs. I can go back to kind of what I was looking up earlier without having to literally go back in tabs. And so one of the things I was trying to understand here is like,

[30:52] Is the larger market remote globally? How large is the market in the US? But actually, what are the industries and what it so it's moving between different levels of the same problem. [31:03] in one place. And how are you checking all this stuff? Because like for me, sometimes like looking at an answer like that, I'm like, OK, that's that might be right, but also like. [31:11] I don't know. Are you checking? Like, yeah. I clicked through a couple of these links and then I would do, like, for example, at one point you'll hear me ask about freelancers and I was like, oh, freelancers is 1.5 billion in the world. And I was like, oh, but remote is 1 billion. So like, how are we? And so that's when I might go and do some additional research. That makes sense. Um, [31:32] Sorry, there's someone... [31:33] Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So, okay, so let's keep going. So we've got our estimates, you're, you're like, you're continuing to ask it to like, refine that down. [31:43] Mm hmm. I'm talking about students. [31:47] And now you're like getting into students, like how many students are in the U.S. [31:52] Okay. [31:53] um how many remote remote workers in the us yeah tell us like uh i guess let's let's like keep scrolling through i kind of want to see if there's um [32:01] Yeah. Other ways that you're slicing things. So [32:05] continuing to follow up on all of the same questions in different variations. I mean, it makes sense. It's really good for that. I think it's underrated how good it is for asking repetitive, annoying questions that you can't ask anyone else because they get mad at you. Yeah. And when you, when you,

[32:28] when you're trying to develop a perspective, this is like, I'm developing an opinion. It's not, I am trying to get it down to a T it's I'm trying to, the, the adjacent work that I'm doing right now is like, I'm going from like, this is the world to this is the inner circle. And what are the levels between that? And so that's what I was trying to like work through and estimate. Um, but [32:52] I'm trying to develop a perspective while I'm doing this basically. [32:55] Yeah, one of the things that you brought up earlier is sort of using this kind of free flowing research style to like understand a context. So like, I think you brought up like Tracy Chapman's like one of Tracy Chapman songs or albums. I can't, I can't remember. [33:10] I'd love to see how you do it for something like that where you're and I don't know if you can share that specific one, but. Cool. All right. So. [33:20] I love to start presentations off with something that is... [33:27] outside of what we're going to be discussing. And at the moment, we're talking about positioning and [33:35] For some reason, Tracy Chapman's talk about revolution has been in my head. I think somebody played Tracy Chapman at the beginning of All Hands this week and I landed on this song. And so there's this thread and then there is another that I'm pulling at the moment, which is like the best positionings are in response to the societal context that you're building your product within. [33:55] And so some of the research that I'd been doing prior to this was around

[34:00] what was the context around the Ford T when it was released, right? Which was like 1908, recession 1907, really cheap car 1908, [34:12] positions that way because you're coming out of recession. 1984 is in response to Macintosh. [34:18] uh reagan administration so it was kind of just feeding those things out that's so cool i just gotta stop you like i just [34:25] very rarely hear someone talk about positioning with that kind of like [34:31] sense of breadth and context and history um i love it it feels like such a rich way to think about how to [34:39] how to talk about your products. I just love it. Thank you. Thank you. And so for some reason, yeah, Tracy Chapman came on yesterday. And so I, [34:49] I was curious about I was just listening to the song and I was like, what is the context around this song? And so [34:57] Yeah. Okay. When did Tracy Chapman's talking about revolution come out? Um, [35:04] Cool. And so it was a question of what were the societal questions in the US in 1988? [35:17] Thank you. [35:19] and it's saying like, [35:23] you know economic inequality and poverty so like widening economic disparities homelessness race relations and civil rights racial racial tensions front of action the aids epidemic the war on drugs

[35:36] the cold war and nuclear anxiety. Yeah. There was a lot going on. It's, I'm like, I thought we had it complicated. Um, and so then part of my question was like, uh, [35:52] Then I remember seeing something about Reagan here and I was like, oh, [35:56] When was Reagan [36:01] is that how you spell reagan uh no you got it right the first time [36:06] When did... [36:10] um rick ray are yeah yeah thank you presidency and um yeah and so it's like oh when was the so you said so you said so you said like when did reagan's presidency end so like tell me about like so why are you why are you asking that yes because i had been doing research around um [36:34] 1984, the Macintosh advert. And I think that part of 1984, individualism was in response to the conservatism that had started in the 1980s, a couple of years before, coming out of the 70s into the 80s. And so I remembered that this was a time of political transition. And so I was curious, how close was this political transition to this song coming out? [37:02] And so I'm asking, okay, what was the election where

[37:07] he left power and this is where it got a little, I think it gets a little complicated. [37:13] Okay, cool, 1988. And so then I was like, what was the election? [37:19] date in 1988. And what I'm trying to do is understand [37:23] The context of this song is it was November 8th, so we're talking, it came out six months before. [37:28] this moment. And so what is the context of the country in April of 1988? If, and so this is really trying to dig into, uh, [37:36] the best positionings or the best products or the best moments come in conversation with the time in which they're birthed into the world and so here i was like okay uh who was the uh who was the opposition uh in 1988 um at the u.s election [37:59] Thank you. [38:00] Michael Dukakis. He's the guy I think he was like, he, he wrote a tank famously and like wore a helmet and everyone thought he was kind of like a little too nerdy or something to be president. [38:15] I think that's the guy. I love this. Now I'm going to have to go and research that afterwards. [38:21] You should follow up and ask, like, what did people think of Michael Dukakis and did he ride a tank? Wait, so the opposition platform, yeah, tell us about that just real quick. And so I'm trying to understand the context of, again, we're trying to understand the context of,

[38:41] Tracy Chapman talking about a revolution in, you know, and if you, if you, we could even ask it like, [38:48] what verses may refer to some of these conversations in 1988, but it is about people, um, [38:55] you know trying to get jobs and people trying to make it work and people standing in the welfare line and so i wanted to understand in april of that year or in the 1987 leading into 98 when it was released what is the context that she's telling the song then and why did it resonate so deeply and so now i'm like oh it was an election year okay if you think six months out from an election um and [39:16] my brain at 11:00 PM on a Tuesday night. If you're thinking- Sometimes the most creative time. Yeah, right, exactly. If you're thinking six months out from an election, you're in this, it's not dissimilar to the time that we're in now, right? Where you don't know. [39:29] where things are going to go, but you do know what you're hoping for. And I'm curious about this moments of shifts, because I think that not just in the U.S., but globally, we're in a moment of shift. And as I think about what does it mean to position our company? Like, how do you feel out how people are feeling at this point in time? And so this is all a thread of... [39:50] of pulling that. And so it was like, okay, [39:52] what was the conversation in 1988 like? [39:58] And part of that comes from like part of the remote questioning that I was doing as well is like, how are people feeling today? Like we've done a lot of interviews with with individuals just that we know that we don't know. And there is this feeling that like it's been many years of things just going faster and faster and do more. And actually, I went through a pandemic and some people moved and some people have had kids and some people got married. And you're just kind of more all the time. We haven't had room for pause. And we've been on our laptop the whole time.

[40:28] context of today. And so I'm trying to understand what is the context of [40:33] these different times, these different positions, or these different songs that people [40:38] created something that made people feel something. I got I really connected to what you just said, like more and more. And we've been on our laptops the whole time. I was like that hit me. Yeah. You know what? Let's try something. Actually, I'd run this through it. [40:53] Um. [40:55] Thank you. [40:56] Hi ChatGPT! [40:58] Could you... [41:00] summarize [41:08] Thank you. [41:11] Thank you. [41:12] Thank you. [41:15] you [41:16] Thank you. [41:18] And if it's [41:18] Cool. [41:22] Okay. [41:25] And so this is something I'll do sometimes to feel out if what I'm writing is coming across, right? Is it tonally, is it capturing? And so here, is it tonally, is it cap? I can write in very convoluted ways sometimes. Is it capturing the message I want to come across? Is it capturing tonally? The, you know, tone is compassionate and supportive. [41:55] - Yeah. [41:56] before I share it with the team, is what I want it to come across? Is that coming across in this case as well? So this was a short piece about being on your laptop the whole time. So you're using it sort of like

[42:08] like as a gut check or like a just a little sanity check of like this is what my gut says this is what i'm trying to do and i'm not going to tell you what i'm trying to do i'm just going to ask you to summarize what you see and it's sort of like acting as a little bit of a mirror that's like maybe slightly more objective than you can be on tuesday at 11 o'clock at night before you share it with your team yes and i can follow up and ask uh does this point come across does this feel like specifically things that i that i want to if it didn't mention them is this part of of [42:38] Yeah, I just, I don't know. I feel like you're doing such a good job of like capturing the spirit of like right now. And I'm just, I'm getting some good vibes from this. So I want to go back to the like, the capturing the spirit of like 1988, like, and just sort of see how, like how you're continuing to do that. [43:08] sort of like you're asking about the opposition so we're kind of like fleshing out the picture i had that idea to ask about michael dukakis so i want to just i want you to ask like [43:15] um [43:17] is he the guy on the tank or whatever you would whatever you would ask like flex him out yeah about michael [43:24] uh let me ask what it what did people think what people think about was he the guy on the tank

[43:35] okay so it's saying [43:37] It was, you know, they think it was mixed. So what I would probably do right now is I would be like, [43:45] Hey, GPT. Can you give me this response in the chat? [43:54] Three paragraphs, Max. Got it. So basically we got a response and you're like, I, you know, I want it in. I want it in a couple of paragraphs. [44:04] and [44:05] he's basically like it's saying that they think of him as a competent and effective technocrat um but this image also worked against him because he was like sort of criticized for lacking charisma and the emotional connection with voters that he and the emotional connection with voters that he needed um and that's [44:29] Yeah, that's that's really interesting. Like he sort of came off as lacking leadership qualities because he was he was too smart. [44:37] Yes. Do you want me to ask, was he the guy on the tank? I have another question that I would ask it too. Yeah, just ask. We'll forget the guy on the tank for a second. What would be your follow up? And how do you swerve this chat to start talking about Tracy Chapman or would you? [44:54] I would ask, were any of these threads present in Tracy Chapman's song? I think so, because- Let's ask. [45:00] Let's ask, okay. [45:04] Thank you. [45:05] Thank you.

[45:07] Thank you. [45:09] Okay. [45:11] *pain* [45:16] So it's saying, yes, several threads were present in the U.S. in 1988 are reflect in Tracy Chapman's song, Economic Inequality and Poverty. So the song's lyrics speak directly to the struggles of those living in poverty, highlighting the frustration and despair of people crying at the doorsteps of those armies of salvation. [45:37] Social justice and change. Chapman's call for revolution. The song symbolizes a broader desire for social change and justice, political polarization and desire for new leadership while not explicitly political. The song's message of change and empowerment reflects the broader public sentiment in 1988. In essence, talking about revolution encapsulates the hope, frustration and desire for change that were significant undercurrents in the US during the lead up to the 1988 presidential election. And so the reason I highlighted this is because like, that's what that like, [46:07] That's one of the things I was trying to get at in my mind. We went from like, there's this interesting song, [46:14] to what was happening in 1988, to there was an election, to who was in the election. And what was the incumbent and what and okay, yes, so these what you're hearing in this song is not somebody in like a non election off year who just kind of felt this way. No, it was a [46:31] um it was capturing a moment in time [46:34] Yeah. Well, and what do you, what do you think? So we've talked a little bit about what you feel like are important threads of the context in our time. So things like things are moving faster and faster. We're spending all of it on our laptops. We're just coming out of COVID. Are there other things like, I just want to like, how are you seeing the time that we're living in right now?

[46:51] Um. [46:53] One thing I wonder about is, which is a related thread, [46:58] But like, [46:59] Is it okay to aspire to less also? I think that that's something that we are seeing and feeling, and that we've talked about internally, is it's the flip side of like, [47:09] Go for more. It's the flip side of... [47:14] you know, of everything going so fast is like, is it okay to aspire for this? Is it is it okay to aspire for the [47:20] for the small things, which might also be an age thing. I think that like there are times to grind. And as we're doing some of these interviews, people are like, no, I know what my priorities are at this point in time. [47:29] So I think that that's one part of it. [47:34] I just think that we, [47:36] Uh... [47:37] The levels at which we're thinking about positioning are [47:42] societally and then what does it mean [47:45] like within your computer and what does it mean for the person. And the things are going so fast is on a personal level. It's also on a global level, you know? And so it really is this interplay between everything is moving so fast, [47:57] in the world [48:00] whether it's elections in different countries, whether it is climate disasters, this, that, everything is so much up here. And even when you get to my computer, I'm having more ads than ever on YouTube. And everything is actually optimizing to give me a little red dot in the corner of the app to remind me to check it because they want me to spend time in it. And so it's like, what is the threads that, how can you, you can't be the antidote to everything, but you can actually be

[48:30] this part is not insignificant because of the time that you're spending in it. And so it really is that what is the relationship between [48:37] how somebody's feeling and then this small but big part that you can [48:42] that you can affect some lightness for. One of the things I think could be fun to do together is like just to go down even further on this, like on this rabbit hole is, I think ChatGBT is actually really good at like simulating the personalities of different people. So we could have it pick out, [49:01] someone from the laptop class and ask it about how it and how to how how we're encapsulating the the feelings of this age and see if we can discover anything new. Are you down for that? I'm very down for that. Okay, cool. So I can drive and you can you can tell me like what you what you want me to say. Okay, cool. So what we're going to do is we're going to. [49:24] Basically describe the laptop class, the chat GPT, and then we're going to ask it to simulate someone from the laptop class and then. [49:32] And then we're going to talk to them and see what we can find. So yeah, so tell me, give me some descriptions of the laptop class I can use. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So these are people who spend [49:48] five days a week on their computer. They rely on their computer for their livelihood. And so it's not that they could do this work on their phone or that their primary job is off their computer.

[50:03] They use their computer for work and for like internet chores. But for things that are more fun, they're phone people. [50:12] they probably try not to open their laptop over the course of the weekend. [50:17] They might go into an office [50:21] They're probably hybrid. [50:24] or they may also be fully remote and working from home. [50:31] It's laptop people who care also, like they care about their work. They're really proud of their work, but they also have like a lot of competing priorities and they [50:41] are clear on what is important to them. And so for some of them, that might be their kids and their family. For others, it might be, you know, teaching a yoga class out in Brooklyn. They don't want to be on their computer all of the time. And there's a disconnect between being a laptop person because you love what you do and you have pride in what you do, but also [51:03] Um... [51:04] wanting to be off that laptop, like you're on the laptop too much. They care about what they do, so they probably use something like ChatGPT or Grammarly or Calendly to help them get some of these tasks done. [51:19] And I'll stop there for... [51:23] for now. Okay, cool. So we're basically like putting that into chat to be team. We're saying, um, here, here's a, here's a group of people. [51:32] Thank you.

[51:33] I'll call the laptop class, right? And we're gonna just describe the laptop class. I just wanna see what it says just to that. [51:43] I love this little memory updated. It really makes you feel like, thanks for remembering. Yeah. [51:50] Okay, so I want you, so now I'm going to say like, I want you to give me five profiles of specific people who could be in the laptop. [52:02] class make it up [52:04] based on what [52:06] I've described and what you know. [52:09] Yeah. [52:13] So it's giving me, isn't it cool? This is crazy, Dan. So it's giving me Rebecca Green, the remote marketing manager, who's age 34. She lives in Portland, Oregon. She's a senior marketing manager for tech startup. She's married with two young kids. So it's giving me like all that stuff. Yeah, go for it. [52:33] Can I tell you in my document here, which is like our... [52:37] uh examples of real people uh the first one is this person who um i will call claire for the sake of this discussion who is 37 lives with her husband and two children is like a leader at a company that does coaching but like cares deeply about her job but is also so that's that's rebecca [53:02] I love this. It's so funny. I actually use ChatGPT for this all the time. And it's kind of crazy how good it is for especially initial market research. You always want to talk to real people, obviously. But if you're just sort of getting, you want to just get a sense like you're kind of doing with this whole context exercise is really good for this.

[53:32] career but finds himself working late into the night um and so he's sort of stressed out about that we've got sophia martinez the hybrid teacher and writer we've got ahmed khan the corporate consultant and laura bennett the health tech entrepreneur so which of these people feels like an interesting profile that you want to explore do none of them feel interesting should we get more [53:51] Let's get more. I'm curious to see more because these ones are interesting and I know I like know them now. [54:00] Cool. So I'm going to hit regenerate, which is a really nice thing because it'll basically just take this prompt and just do it again and try to make it slightly more diverse. So we'll see if that works for you. But if there's something that's feeling too generic in a particular direction, we can always ask it to be like, "Hey, give me a person who's more like X." [54:25] So we've got a senior product manager at a tech startup. We've got a freelance graphic designer, university professor of history, a software engineer, a Fortune 500 company, a marketing director at a nonprofit. Any of these stick out to you or should we push it in any direction? [54:43] OK. [54:44] Aisha Khan. So Aisha is the marketing director at a nonprofit. She lives in Washington, DC. She's in her late 30s. She works in a hybrid role balancing in office meetings with remote strategy sessions. Okay, cool. So great. I'm going to say, please, let me just, I'll just write it out. [55:01] Thank you.

[55:02] Thank you. [55:04] oh my goodness damn this is so cool [55:08] Thank you. [55:11] Okay. So I'm going to say, great. Please write me a detailed profile of Aisha. It should be so detailed that another AI could take on her personality and simulate everything important about her, how she thinks and her worldview. Um, [55:24] So this is, oops. So we got an error. So now we're getting deep into Aisha. We're getting a detail profile. [55:35] um you know physical description basic information background and upbringing um [55:43] education and early career, current role and work philosophy, [55:48] Um, [55:49] And [55:51] Yeah, this is like super this is like super detailed. It's like it's a biography. Yeah. This is crazy. How does it [56:00] generate this type of depth [56:03] about a [56:05] a person that we've made up together. [56:08] I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. I mean, I think like there's a lot of this type of stuff on the Internet where it's like people talking about different types of personalities and different people and how they think and. [56:20] and all that kind of stuff. So it's obviously like drawing on that. And [56:26] It's just really good at. [56:28] given like a little bit of text. So like, you know, we have a little bit of a profile above here.

[56:34] just like, [56:35] just exploding that out into something more detailed. It's like really, really good at that. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to take this profile. I'm going to copy it. [56:44] And I'm gonna open up a new chat. I'm gonna say, I want you to simulate this person [56:50] so I can talk to them. [56:52] um and uh i'll say also only respond as this person just to make sure it kind of captures it and let's see how let's see how it does this is a really long prompt so sometimes it gets like a little bit confused and forgets oh so we've got we've got aisha so um so yeah what would you want to know about aisha to kind of like help with this positioning exercise [57:19] I wanna ask Aisha how she's feeling today. [57:21] All right. How are you feeling today? [57:24] I'm [57:26] Aisha says she's feeling centered and focused. Thank you for asking. I've been balancing a few projects at work, but I made sure to start my morning with some yoga, which always helped me, helps me stay grounded. How about you? How are you feeling? [57:37] Um, I'm good. I'm curious. [57:43] what your first 10 minutes are like when you sit down to start your work every day. [57:49] Thank you. [57:50] And maybe it's with your first minutes on your laptop, I like when you sit down. [57:55] Mm-hmm. [57:56] Uh, be detailed and specific and honest. I'm going to say, see what that, see what that happen. That does. [58:03] My first 10 minutes at work are a crucial part of setting the tone for the day. Here's how it typically goes. Log in and settle in. I start by logging into my laptop, making sure everything is in place. My coffee is within reach. My notebook is open beside me. My phone is on silent to minimize distractions. I like to have a clean and organized workspace.

[58:20] So if anything's left from the previous day, I'll tidy it up. Then I check my calendar. The first thing I do on my laptop is my calendar. I view the meetings scheduled. If there are back-to-back meetings, I mentally prepare myself for a more intense day. This gives me a sense of how much uninterrupted work time I have, which helps me prioritize tasks. That's actually like a [58:35] quite insightful. I do that too. You're like, hey, do you have all I need to share? Yeah. Skim through emails and messages. Next, I open Slack and check for any urgent messages, scan for anything that requires immediate attention, review to-do lists, and then a brief moment of reflection. So I think this is reasonable. It's probably a little bit generic. How are you feeling about it? [59:05] where people would be like, what part... [59:07] uh, [59:09] Like what part... [59:11] Of that, do they most enjoy and do they least enjoy? [59:16] i will also say we can push it to be less generic so if if it's if it's feeling like [59:21] if it's feeling like we want something else we can do that um do you most enjoy and least enjoy actually before we do that i want to just press redo once just to like see like okay yeah what could what could happen i want to explore the space a little the space of possibilities so [59:37] Thank you. [59:38] Opening ritual, I begin by opening my laptop and launching a few key apps. These are my lifelines. Workspace setup. While my computer is waking up, I'll take a moment to adjust my workspace. Quick review of the day, email check-in, Slack messages, prioritizing tasks, setting intentions. So more or less the same, but there's like this, this one feels a little more like spiritual or something, like opening ritual and setting intentions, which is kind of interesting. So maybe we can go with that one. So I'm going to say, what parts of this do you most enjoy and least enjoy?

[1:00:07] Okay. She most enjoys the part where she sets her intentions. I least enjoy scanning through emails and Slack messages. Same, same Aisha. Right. Right. Okay. It can feel overwhelming. There you go. Especially if they're unexplained issues. What about it feels overwhelming? [1:00:24] What about it feels overwhelming? Be really specific. [1:00:33] The overwhelming part comes from a few things: volume and urgency, context switching, pressure to respond, unplanned tasks, emotional weight, [1:00:44] These factors combine to create a sense of being pulled in multiple directions at once, which is why I try to keep this part of my morning routine as streamlined and brief as possible. [1:00:51] Cool. [1:00:52] Um... [1:00:54] It's interesting because it's a variation of what you hear from people, right? But I think that this is where [1:01:01] you or I would want to [1:01:05] - Okay. [1:01:05] just like understand this person even a little bit even a little bit more so yeah tell me more like what like where does this go for you or where what would you want to ask more of like how yeah or maybe it's i would want to because what i'm trying to understand in this case is like what is causing the open months for people right and if there's anything that they could remove from hero that would uh change how they're feeling in that instant [1:01:30] what would it be? Or from a higher level, like, I mean, maybe ask Aisha, when else do you film Overwhelm? I'd be curious.

[1:01:38] uh, [1:01:39] One of the things while it's responding, so I'm saying, what else do you feel overwhelmed? One of the things while it's responding, like this pressure to respond thing is really interesting. It's like that feeling. I know that feeling of like weight that comes over you and expectation. And like it is to some degree driven by like. [1:01:58] the outside environment and it's like to some degree driven by like those little beeps of like the red lights of the notifications. But it's also it's also very internal. It's like I feel like I want to live up to all these like expectations, you know? Yes. Uh huh. I think that that's that's something we've talked a little bit about is it's it's also the like wanting to be on it for other people or not let down other people. [1:02:25] Totally for yourself. [1:02:28] Okay, so we asked Aisha where she feels overwhelmed. We got back to back meetings, tight deadlines, unclear expectations, managing team conflicts, information overload. [1:02:38] personal life demands. So one of the, one thing that we can do is, um, [1:02:43] We can say something like, these feel pretty generic. Can you tell me things that only Aisha might say to a question like this? [1:02:53] Thank you. [1:02:54] Make sure it's really specific to you. [1:02:58] Thank you. [1:03:00] Yeah. [1:03:01] So Aisha says like fundraising events is a place where she feels particularly overwhelmed. And so this is where we're starting to get into like... Her job, this is her.

[1:03:11] Yeah, this is actually her day. And it's one of the really interesting things about this is it's such a function of prompting. Like if I had said this at the top, I think we would have gotten a lot less generic answers to begin with. But like, yeah, she's thinking about fundraising events. She's thinking about crisis communications, cultural tensions, donor relationship, managing expectations from my family. What is what are the what does that stuff make you think about? [1:03:34] Yeah. What did these things make me think about? [1:03:40] This is interesting because this would be insight into the day-to-day of somebody who... [1:03:48] I would have to be on a call with otherwise to even think about the different things that they're working through over the course of the day, if that makes sense. Like, yeah, what does go into donor relations or what does go into fundraising for rent? What are those from a from a. [1:04:01] team building a product perspective. It's like, oh, these start to be some of the jobs to be done by a person who is separate to us. And yeah, that's the first place where my [1:04:12] where my mind went, which is much more helpful than like signs of burnout. [1:04:19] Totally. I want to go back to now, now, now you're making me think, I want to go back to our original question. Like, um, I'm, I'm good. Like, I'm curious about what the first 10 days of your life are like, and I'm just going to add in, um, can you like, just tell me things that only, um, Aisha might say to a question like this and make sure it's specific to you and see how it

[1:04:42] based out of all that kind of stuff. Something that makes us like see her day a little bit more. [1:04:46] Thank you. [1:04:55] This makes me think of one other use case I've seen, which is helpful, that Adina and Jaya on our team who lead on research do, which is when we do these interviews, we get transcripts of the videos afterwards. [1:05:08] And it can be like 25 or 30 people and putting those transcripts into chat GPT and creating a table of like, [1:05:15] what all the responses were and then for specific types of insights. And then what are the threads across all of those, um, across all of those interviews? I love that. Another thing you can do is like, um, you can, uh, [1:05:29] put a transcript in and have it write a profile of that person from the transcript and then continue interviewing them after they're gone. That's fascinating. Yeah. Um, okay. So, so we got like a slightly more detailed, um, [1:05:46] you know, response from Aisha saying things that, you know, only Aisha would know. I would say it's still like a little bit more generic than we might like, but it's starting to feel more visceral. [1:06:00] and visual. [1:06:01] And I think with a little bit more tweaking, we could probably [1:06:04] get somewhere good. But like, I just, you know, I think going back to that, that sort of, um, that other response we got where it's like talking about crisis comms and you're like, okay, now I'm like, it's saying things where I'm getting into the world a little bit in a way that I wouldn't be able to otherwise. That made me think of this. Then I was like, oh, what if I could talk to Tracy Chapman in 1988? And then I was thinking about another example of the positioning, which was the

[1:06:27] Ford T in 1908, that the whole positioning around it was like, [1:06:32] you know, buy a Ford T and then buy more with what you have left over. And it was cost. It was every man's car because it was a, you know, cheaper alternative. And it came on the tail end of a recession in 1907, which is probably what played into its positioning at that point in time. And the overall cultural feeling was probably like, I'm broke, right? And so it's not like you're broke, here's a car. It's like, no, do this and do more after it. And so what we did with Tracy Chapman, I would probably be interested in like diving into understanding the context, but from the [1:07:02] people who would have participated and had that context. [1:07:06] in 1908. [1:07:08] yeah i think this is a fantastic use of language models like i'm i'm kind of buzzing right now because like it's so valuable to capture a gestalt of like an age [1:07:20] And [1:07:21] Usually the way to capture Gestalt is you go and you read a bunch of stuff and like [1:07:27] you just like if you if you spend like a couple weeks doing that you get this like [1:07:32] this residue that just like accumulates in your body. That's like the vibe. [1:07:37] And then that's what lets you do the positioning or write the piece or whatever. I'm doing this right now with like, I'm writing a piece about ancient Greece and I'm doing the same thing. I'm just trying to get the vibe. [1:07:49] And it's such a powerful shortcut to just use this. And I'm the chat GPT AI guy. I don't know why I haven't been doing that. I love it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's really true because it's that you're steeping yourself in something.

[1:08:05] And it's so impersonal. Or it's just like tab after tab of text after text. So I'm probably going to try and recreate what you did here afterwards for my little 4T folks. [1:08:19] I love that. [1:08:20] um well i we had more to cover but we are unfortunately out of time we'll have to have you back for another episode um maybe maybe around one of arc's new launches yes um but this is this is fantastic thank you so much for doing thank you dan thank you oh my gosh folks you absolutely [1:08:50] Why? Because this show is the epitome of awesomeness. It's like finding a treasure chest in your backyard, but instead of gold, it's filled with pure, unadulterated knowledge bombs about chat GPT. Every episode is a roller coaster of emotions, insights, and laughter that will leave you on the edge of your seat. [1:09:08] craving for more. It's not just a show. It's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship. [1:09:15] So do yourself a favor. Hit like, smash subscribe, and strap in for the ride of your life. [1:09:21] And now, without any further ado, let me just say, Dan, I'm absolutely hopelessly in love with you.