Feelings Check in: AI and the Hollywood Strike, EthCC overview and themes, In Our Conference Feelings

[00:00] Next year, I want to kind of do like a podcast studio and we're having people through. [00:04] Yes, that's what I'm saying. Oh, cool. Like a sweet. A sweet. [00:06] a suite and people come up and talk to us and we have mic stands like an av guy [00:10] We have an AV gal. Oh, that too. [00:15] Welcome to the Feelings Check-In, a feelings first look at the news of the week. Takes no one asked for on topics everyone's talking about. I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. The Boys Club podcast? No. No. [00:33] Just boys club. [00:34] Hi. [00:35] Bonjour. Bonjour. BJ. How you doing? Oh, I'm doing good. We are... [00:40] recording [00:42] Live from ECC. [00:44] Live from Natasha's hotel room in Paris at ACC. [00:48] Yeah, not at the conference. Also not at like a swaggy Ritz podcast studio. I do think we should make that a goal for next year that like right now, just to give the listener a visual of the situation, Natasha is sitting on her bed holding. We're both holding the mic. The setup is just so budget. [01:07] budget. It's lo-fi. It's lo-fi. [01:09] It's very charming. [01:11] So we're going to do the feelings check in podcast today for listeners who might be new. The feelings check in is where we Natasha takes a story and I take a story from the past week and we basically teach it to each other. So it's a fun format. If you don't know anything, it's the funnest format in the world. And then we do a segment on our personal feelings.

[01:32] Which I'm sure some listeners just tune out for. Skip through, maybe. They might just end the podcast before the personal feelings start. Some listeners might just want the personal feelings. [01:42] We're all things talk people. Hey, Natasha, if someone wants to get into crypto or is looking for a better way to trade, where should they go? Oh, Dina, I'm so glad you asked. The place to be is Kraken. It's more than a crypto platform. Kraken is your bridge to the new world of finance. [02:02] to trade with a redesigned trading interface that's so easy to use. From degen to day trader, first timer to full timer, make your trades in just a few clicks. Go to kraken.com backslash boys club, sign up in just a few minutes, and you can even get started with as little as $10. We love you, Kraken. [02:19] I'll go first. So AI has entered the Hollywood chat. [02:23] That's what we're talking about today. There's quite a few components to this story. So just you're going to journey with me. [02:30] We're going to start... [02:31] In May. [02:33] So for those who do not know, [02:34] The writers of Hollywood have been on strike. [02:37] The Writers Guild of America, which is basically a union that represents the [02:42] about 11,000 plus. [02:45] Screenwriters and writers for various types of Hollywood productions went on strike. [02:53] And what this means is that any TV and film writers, so fiction, basically writers, are not going to be working until they come to negotiations. [03:01] with this thing called the Alliance of Motion Pictures and Television Producers.

[03:05] There's a few players happening in this space that are affecting basically Hollywood and [03:10] coming to a massive halt this week. But it started back in May. Just going to give you some context for the players. So there's three players. There's the Writers Guild of America, that labor union that represents the [03:21] writers in America producing basically TV film. [03:25] There's also writers that do nonfiction books. [03:28] writing, those writers are not on strike. It's a different negotiation. [03:32] So people who do podcast writing or reporters or things like that. [03:37] Okay, this is entertainment. [03:39] Entertainment writers. [03:40] Then there's the Alliance of Motion Pictures and Television Producers. [03:43] This represents 350 American television and film production companies. [03:47] So think Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures, Universal, Walt Disney Studios, like the big studios and a bunch of other ones, 350 in this alliance where they all come together and they negotiate the rights of different deals with these other unions. [04:02] Then the third is the SAG-AFTA. That sounds for Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. [04:09] This is basically another union that represents actors. [04:13] And there's about 160,000 actors or media professionals worldwide that are a part of SAG-AFTA. Three players. [04:22] Started back in May, writers went on strike, and they went on strike for two reasons. [04:27] The two reasons they went on strike [04:29] are related to big technological changes that are happening within Hollywood. [04:35] What happens is every three years,

[04:37] The Writers Guild of America... [04:39] has a contract negotiation with that alliance of motion pictures. And these rights are everything from compensation to like workers' rights to how many hours they can work when they have to take lunch, like all of these different things. It's a union. So setting up the rules of how the union works. [04:57] They came to a massive halt this year and the writers went on strike because the negotiation wasn't successful and they didn't come to a new contract. Every three years this contract happens, but. [05:07] Strikes happen every so often. [05:08] We all remember 2007, 2008, Raider Strike. The horrendous season two of Friday Night Lights is... [05:15] Because... [05:16] of the writer's strike that happened. So in my mind, I'm well aware of the writer's strike and what it means for me personally. So that's the last time that we've had a big writer's strike where there's no new content being produced by these writers. Devastating for someone like me who loves television. [05:33] The two main technological developments that they are... [05:36] trying to have baked into these new rights and into the negotiations. [05:41] our demands around streaming. [05:43] and demands around AI development. The 2007-2008 strike happened because [05:48] They had no residual payments for streaming. [05:52] So how writers make money is all sorts of things they... [05:56] are writing new scripts, they're working on existing scripts, they're selling ideas to these studios, and then they're [06:03] Historically, they used to make [06:05] a good amount of money from residuals when you had broadcast television.

[06:09] Then streaming entered the chat and obviously everything changed. They were really late to the game with 2008 and those negotiations. What we're seeing now is over. [06:18] Actors and writers are learning their lessons and they're trying to get ahead of it before the technology develops and they're behind the ball, essentially. [06:25] So they're renegotiating the terms around streaming, [06:28] for residuals and they have a few things that they want to see across the board. The writers, they want to see higher pay. They want to see better residuals for streaming. They want to see better staffing requirements, shorter exclusivity periods, and then AI assurances. These are the five main things that they're really focused on. [06:46] I could really get into the weeds on what sort of developments are happening in the [06:51] around streaming and how it affects writers that's really complicated but [06:55] You can imagine how different TV looked. [06:58] from when Friday Night Lights was big to how TV looks now. You add a cycle of 24 episodes, [07:04] You had a very different type of writer's room than you have today where you have, you know, eight, ten episodes of a series like The Bear. And really the way that writers have been compensated has not changed between those two things, even though the structures of these shows have changed a lot. [07:18] There's a lot we could say there. We don't need to get into it. But essentially, they're trying to figure out the structure around that. That pays them. [07:23] Fairly for their work and creative output where, [07:27] Netflix and other streaming services are making a ton of money from subscriptions and, [07:32] but not as much money from advertisers. And a lot of what writers are compensated for is compensation around advertising. So there's a whole, it's really interesting, but that doesn't necessarily have to do with like,

[07:43] What's podcasts about? [07:45] which is emerging tech. The other big part of it is assurances around AI. Obviously, when you're thinking about AI, [07:52] The most applicable use case right now is using ChatGPT to help you write things. [07:57] And so, [07:59] writers are fairly feeling very concerned about how these things, [08:05] massive, massive, [08:06] Production studios like Paramount or Disney... [08:09] are going to start to utilize these technologies to push them out of a job. A few factors here. There's the [08:16] ability for AI to produce original scripts, [08:20] And then there's also this idea of AI taking writers' work and, [08:25] And I, [08:27] producing on top of what somebody else has already written. Okay. I think that that's a really important distinction. So it's both, I'm going into chat GBT and I'm saying, write me a script about two ladies in Paris for the week at a crypto conference. [08:42] That's one element. And then the other element is [08:45] taking all the tweets from Boys Club and all the content that we produce in our newsletter [08:49] Feeding that into some sort of LLM and then using that as like the training. Exactly. For creating something new from that. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Currently, AI is... [08:58] It's basically incapable of distinguishing between copyrighted materials and non-copyrighted materials. [09:05] And so the potential for copyright infringement is massive. [09:09] and a huge concern for writers. What's interesting is as I was doing a lot of research for this,

[09:15] The rules that they want are pretty unclear because the whole industry is unclear. A lot of the language that they're using is sort of like reasonable human intervention. [09:27] reasonable human compensation for work [09:30] And I, [09:31] rules of engagement essentially of how they're going to use AI technology. I was really trying to find like what are the actual asks? What are the [09:38] tangible parameters that they want. And it's pretty hard to decipher. And I think a lot of that is because [09:45] It's, [09:46] saying AI assurances, like, we don't even really know what that means. So it's so funny because the way that the, I've been seeing the story in the headlines has been [09:56] an anti-AI story. [09:58] where it is framing and maybe that's just because I'm like whatever reading tech news but [10:04] It's framing Fran Drescher, who's the spokesperson for one of the unions, I assume. [10:09] as this anti-AI advocate. But really what they're saying when you dig into it is just that they want some [10:17] boundaries around how it's used and they want to be compensated for things like when [10:22] their work [10:24] is [10:24] used [10:26] in these training models. [10:28] that they... [10:30] should be compensated for that. That's a fair representation. Yeah. Okay. I am sure there are people who have stronger opinions than that. [10:37] But the main headline is AI assurances and safeguards around usage rights. [10:43] And what's tough about that is a lot of that is outside of the control of like Sony, right?

[10:48] That's something that's happening on a deeper level. [10:50] And there's a [10:51] some really interesting stories. The Daily did an interesting story about someone like Sarah Silverman [10:56] who her course of action is to actually sue companies that are producing large language models that have clearly... [11:03] utilized her work, like her book or her [11:07] comedy series and without her consent. But that work is copyrighted. [11:11] So there is a distinction between copyrighted work and non-copyrighted work, how that relates to how these LLMs are [11:18] utilizing that content and taking it in, making it a bunch of ones and zeros, and then being able to produce something new from that. There's one other component to the story. Why are we talking about it now? Actors have now come into the scene and they were basically like, writers, hold my beer. This is much more impactful for me as an actor who has... [11:38] a physical representation and a digital identity that can be produced and utilized and [11:45] be leveraged by these production companies to... [11:49] have new work produced. Yeah. SAG, AFTA... [11:53] Joins the writer strikes on July 12th. The reason this happened is their contract was up for. [11:59] renegotiation. It was set to be confirmed by June 30th. They extended that to July 12th and no deal was reached. So actors have joined the strike, which is huge. That did not happen in 2007 or 2008. [12:11] There's a lot of support from actors, but they didn't join the strike in the same way. So this has put Hollywood completely, essentially, to a halt. I can see that because it's one thing to have written words, which obviously needs to be dealt with and feels like a sensitive issue. Right.

[12:27] to have your face be manipulated. I saw this thing that was this NVIDIA eye tracker tech where he's like – [12:35] talking off screen and his eyes are over here and he's reading something and then there's another split frame [12:39] where the eye tracker is [12:41] is able to have him be making eye contact. Oh, wow. The camera. And he's like showing a side by side of it working. And it's like insane. Yeah. [12:50] And it is completely convincing. Yeah. You would never know. [12:54] And that's just the tip of the iceberg for what is possible. And yeah, I can imagine if I'm an actor and your face and body and the words that are coming out of your mouth being... [13:04] able to be totally manipulated. Yes. [13:07] And not like even necessarily in a nefarious way, but just in a way that's like, that's your work. Exactly. [13:12] And you won't be compensated for it. You won't be compensated. Exactly. So the big part of why the contract was rejected from SAG [13:20] is that there was a provision that would require background actors for major production to be digitally scanned, even if they were hired for one day. So essentially saying, in order for you to be a part of a big production, we're going to scan you and we can utilize your likeness. [13:35] however we want. [13:36] throughout the rest of that production. Rightfully, actors... [13:40] pushed back and they are asking all these questions now about how their likeness will be trained, how their voice will be trained. [13:48] and how new performances will be generated. [13:51] both on screen and in voice. [13:53] For these production companies. The story isn't really about huge celebrities like a Matt Damon or a Ben Affleck or something. It's more about background actors and extra smaller TV actors. People who we wouldn't think of as when we think of an actor, we think of these huge A-list celebrities. But there are many, many people. I mean, 116,000 people are part of SAG.

[14:16] That are part of these productions all the time that will lose their jobs and their likeness will be reproduced over and over and over again for background and extras and all this sort of thing. It reminds me, my dad is a session drummer and he's been a drummer his whole life and he session drummer just means you get paid to come in and record in other people's sessions and recordings. [14:37] And his whole career and his whole life has been very much working drummer where he has some gig, he has to go in the studio, he plays drums and then on some song and then he leaves. [14:46] And there's an interesting rift that, [14:49] Where when he was recording drums, it was analog. Okay. [14:53] And then in the 80s and the 90s, when everything started to get digitized and there started to be basically like electronic or synthetic drums. OK. I know that he has a chip on his shoulder. Yeah. Around that. [15:05] technological innovation because it took it, [15:08] It literally took jobs away from him when people started being able to program drums into songs. [15:13] And his argument would be like, it doesn't sound as good. [15:17] When you don't have real drums on a track. And so, but like, he's very much of the old guard. Yeah. Where if you talk to my husband, Dave, who's also a music producer, who programs drums all the time and has synthetic drums, the technology has come so far that Dave would be like, it sounds fine. Yeah. [15:33] And so I think that there's going to be an interesting generational shift between people who... [15:39] actors who have come up in this era and then a real clear dividing line for people who are like, well,

[15:46] Yeah, maybe it's not as good when you have AI background actors in the work, but... [15:51] There will be a lot of other sort of creativity that is possible as a result of that. [15:56] And it will unlock a lot for indie producers and people who don't have big budgets to hire extras and actors to be able to come in. And, you know, who knows what that could enable. It's tricky to look at this and be too black and white about it. [16:08] because... [16:09] We've seen it in the past and it does open up stuff for people. Yeah. I also think... [16:14] more so related to the writer's strike. When you look at what AI is producing, like, it's regurgitation. And there's a lot of shit on TV that is just regurgitation. Like, [16:24] CSI is probably not going to need the same type of writing staff that [16:29] It has today in 10 years. [16:31] But going to always have... [16:33] works of art that need creative... [16:36] generation from a human being. And I think that will always continue. We've just seen this throughout history that great work is always elevated and always wins in the end. [16:47] So one thing that I wanted to end on is THAG addressing their concerns. They want to... [16:53] Create guidelines around acceptable usage of AI. [16:56] They want to bargain protections against misuse and consent. [17:00] And fair compensation when members work, such as likeness or voice, is used in a training AI system. [17:06] and to create new performances. [17:08] Which... [17:09] Fair. [17:10] Very fair. [17:11] So Hollywood is at a halt right now. The Oppenheimer premiere in the U.S. was canceled. It was supposed to happen on Monday. Really? Yeah, actors are not showing up. They're fully on strike. So like genuinely Hollywood is at a halt.

[17:24] Besides reality TV shows and news reporting, but film TV. And this podcast. And this podcast. [17:32] So that's what's going on in the Hollywood strike. [17:48] So I'm going to talk about some trends, themes, takeaways from ECC. [17:56] So for those who don't know, ETHCC is the Ethereum Community Conference. The CC... Oh, that's what it stands for. Stands for Community Conference. For those who don't know, me. [18:08] For those who don't know, Natasha. [18:10] Ethereum Community Conference, ECC. It's the largest annual... [18:14] European Ethereum event focused on technology and community. [18:17] So a lot of developers, a lot of engineers, a lot of startups and founders and investors, a lot of investors involved. [18:25] congregate, [18:26] in Paris. I think it's the sixth anniversary of ECC. [18:30] So, [18:31] That's generally what you see is. Naturally, a lot of the conversation is around Ethereum, Ethereum, [18:37] and Ethereum development. [18:39] The clue is in the name. [18:40] But at this point, the industry has sort of matured and evolved to a point where a lot of crypto folks are coming and descending on Paris, even the... [18:49] If they're involved in other chains like a Solana or an Avalanche or something like that. So it's kind of just like your generalist crypto conference at this point.

[18:57] The conference lineup, as you can imagine, a lot of technical conversations around things like security and protocol development and bridging and swapping, very technical conversations that are happening. [19:07] Obviously, all eyes on Vitalik. [19:10] All eyes on him. All eyes on Vitalik. When he takes the stage, the Justin Bieber of Ethereum... [19:16] He is the king of all of our hearts. He is... [19:19] gave his talk on [19:21] account abstraction. His talk is a really important moment in the schedule of ECC because it really sets the tone. Okay. [19:29] What are we talking about? What are we thinking about? What's on the roadmap? And what are the focus areas? Okay. [19:34] And that really informs a lot of the building that all of these other developers and teams and startups and investors are thinking about. And it makes sense because for the listener who's not aware... [19:43] Basically, if you're an entrepreneur or an engineer... [19:47] who wants to build on Ethereum, what the Ethereum Foundation and what the core developers of Ethereum are working on and planning to deploy is, [19:56] directly affects the building blocks that you can utilize for your own protocol and dApp and things like that. [20:01] 100 PC. And that speaks directly to this idea of account abstraction. [20:05] So Vitalik's POV, [20:08] and thesis is that everyone will switch from the current EOA wallet, which is externally owned account. So think [20:16] Meta mask where you have your seed phrase and your keys and stuff like that. [20:20] to what's called a smart contract based wallet. [20:23] And if that transition is successful, [20:26] managing a crypto wallet will become as easy as managing an email account. That's sort of the vision and the roadmap for where we're headed. I think it's really promising and exciting that Vitalik and his pals at the Ethereum Foundation and the broader sort of developer ecosystem were thinking a lot about this idea of accessibility. Yeah. Also sort of scalability and here for it. I love that. Exciting. Yeah. Very exciting. So that's what's on Vitalik's mind. A couple other trends and themes that I want to unpack. Real world assets.

[20:55] L2s. [20:56] And just a quick vibe check on the market. Okay. [20:59] So the first one, real world assets. [21:02] And these are things that we're just like seeing around, hearing around town. [21:05] chatting with folks about what's coming up in the conversation while we're here. [21:08] Real-world assets. We are going to dedicate a standalone podcast to [21:13] Maybe even podcast series. [21:16] for love to overcommit. [21:18] Definitely a standalone podcast to talk about real world assets and unpack what that is and explain what it is further. But. [21:24] Basically, like the cliff notes is that real world assets, RWA, is all about taking the [21:31] an antiquated and inefficient industry, the financial services industry in this case, [21:35] And putting it on chain to make it faster, more transparent and more. [21:40] most importantly, probably removing very expensive middlemen and middlemen services. [21:45] So, yeah. [21:46] a real world asset, [21:48] the asset itself can be anything that's in the real world. So a lot of it is real estate. You can think like commodities. You can even think art. Mortgages, like bundled mortgages. Mortgages. [21:59] gold things like that stable coins are real world assets as well [22:04] So it's basically... [22:06] this idea of taking something that exists in the real world that has a relatively stable price [22:12] And tokenizing that to bring it on chain and, like I said before, make it more transparent, make it more efficient and cut out all of these middleman fees and stuff that are happening in this sort of stack of how these things are traded around. One thing that I learned literally yesterday is a lot of this is institutional money.

[22:27] And we're talking billions and trillions of dollars worth of assets. And the way that these asset managers work, they're quite stuck in their ways, but they're [22:37] At every given point in their management of these assets, there are middlemen that they are paying fees to. And when you're talking about trillions of dollars worth of assets, those fees are astronomical to your bottom line. So there's a real incentive and use case for them to start to think about putting these things on chain and creating efficiencies. [22:56] I just want to acknowledge the hypocrisy in the two stories that we're telling where you're like, these actors are getting put out of work and we need to protect them. And in my story, we're like, these middlemen are getting paid and fuck them. And they should like. [23:11] Definitely. Find new jobs. Find new jobs. [23:16] So, yeah, just want to acknowledge that. One of the reasons why I think this is really interesting is that the idea is that all of these assets, again, have like relatively fixed prices. I'm not going to call them stable, but they're relatively stable compared to the swings in the volatility that you see elsewhere in the crypto market. [23:34] And so it brings maturity to the industry that is long overdue and very needed. Another reason why I am personally excited about it is that there's a criticism in crypto that the industry is a hammer looking for a nail. Yeah. [23:51] There's very clear pain points that this solves for. [23:54] in very well-established and lucrative industries that it makes it 10x better. And when you see a solution that makes something 10x better, like that's exciting and that feels real. Yeah. Just bullish. Love it. Bullish.

[24:06] Okay, so that's real world assets. More to come there. [24:09] L2s. [24:10] This is another trend that we're seeing here this week. I do want to disclose that the one that I'm going to talk about is Forsello and an employee of the Selle Foundation. So I'm biased and conflicted in this conversation. But [24:23] I do think it speaks to a broader industry trend that is important to have context for. So I'm not shilling Cello here. Don't worry. You're coming in with so much baggage around it. I'm so sorry. So much baggage. Cello had a big announcement this week. For those who don't know, Cello is a layer one. [24:39] It is considering a move to an L2. It has to go through governance and community voting and all this stuff. There's a process because it's a decentralized process. [24:50] ecosystem, but very much signaling and intentions are pointing towards it becoming an L2 on Ethereum. What does that mean? That means Celo, in this instance, transitions from being an independent network. [25:03] EVM compatible. So it is an Ethereum compatible, like it essentially is an Ethereum fork. So it moves from being like this Ethereum fork that is compatible with Ethereum. So it's a Ethereum [25:11] but its own layer one blockchain thing. [25:14] to sitting on top of Ethereum. So remember when we talked to Jesse from Base? Yes, of course. [25:20] Jesse Pollock. Nice dude. It's the same idea. Celo sits on top of Ethereum. And the benefit is that it becomes this super cheap way to transact. [25:30] But it's on Ethereum. So it is... [25:33] Not its own thing, its own ecosystem, where the value is being accrued within that ecosystem. The value is essentially being accrued into the Ethereum ecosystem. Layer 1 blockchains are designed to be this sort of self-sufficient organism. L2 solutions are really looking at how do we enhance the performance of the L1, in this case, Ethereum, rather than trying to operate our own thing. And the benefit is you're able to have these super cheap, super scalable transactions on Celo in this instance.

[26:02] but it is all sort of settling to Ethereum. So Ethereum becomes the settlement layer, the layer one to all these [26:09] potentially there's a scenario where you can see there's a bunch of L2s. [26:13] that pop up on Ethereum, but they all settle back to this one network. What is [26:18] Interesting here. Zora, a couple weeks ago, announced their L2. Okay. And in their messaging... [26:25] They were very strongly signaling that this is about the Zora L2 is about on-chain media. [26:33] They're really thinking, obviously, they come from sort of our NFTs, and that's very much the direction that they're heading with this L2, where they're like, we're going to be the home for all of the transactions on Amazon. [26:43] and around on-chain media. We're going to be designing RL2 to really be perfect for that type of application. [26:49] And in the case of Sallow, it's a totally different ecosystem, totally different vibe over there. [26:54] It's a lot more about like refi, regen stuff. Gitcoin just announced an L2 as well. And so you can start to imagine a world where there are all these different L2s that are designed and cater to very specific use cases or communities or types of startups and founders. [27:11] And... [27:12] But they all settle back to Ethereum and they're all secured by Ethereum. It's such a bull case for Ethereum if that starts to develop. It starts to allow for lots of different little ecosystems to pop up that are designed for and cared for in their specific way. Instead of being a D2C brand where you're responsible for top to bottom your product, your distribution, all of it.

[27:36] you're at the Bon Marche. You're at [27:40] Sephora. You have this like powerhouse of distribution while you still get to have [27:44] your brand, your values, the things that are important to you for your specific, in this case, layer two. [27:50] Yeah. And I think just to expand on that analogy, if you're a makeup brand being in Sephora is that you get access to the collective liquidity of all the Sephora customers. [27:59] So that's kind of the same thing that you can imagine here where when there's a world where there's easy bridging and you can jump between L2s really easily, which will come. [28:09] you're going to Sephora and maybe you're going in to buy the Fenty Beauty [28:13] foundation. [28:13] But while you're there, you see the Kosas new spray and you're buying that too. And so... [28:20] both brands are benefiting from the big tent of the Sephora. Nice, nice, nice. [28:26] What was a Sephora purchase recently for you? I actually wanted to talk to you about this. We haven't talked about it yet, but I bought a... [28:32] drop [28:34] self-tanner. Whoa, really? Yeah. Yeah. Have you been using it? I have it here. No, I haven't. I used it one time and it had a weird smell, but I think I can get past it. Okay. But I might use it today. Okay. Exciting. Wow. Risky. [28:45] event night. Do you remember the Selena Gomez Met Gala fiasco? That's gonna be you six hours from now. [28:52] It just gets darker and darker. Wow, big. [28:54] Really big. I've never been a self-tanner person. Looking forward to seeing how it works for you. Yeah. What about you? Any support? Yes. I've gotten really into this Charlotte Tilbury thing. [29:06] Collagen serum.

[29:08] It's so expensive. [29:10] But it is so nice. Okay. Smells amazing. Feels amazing. It's really good. Lincoln show notes. Honestly, it's really good. Okay. Great, great, great. So third thing, really quickly, vibe check. Vibe check on the market. [29:22] On the market while we're here. Sentiment. [29:24] Sentiment. I would say that it feels like things are shifting. It does. [29:30] It does. Bullmark is here. Not going to say it. [29:34] Quite yet. We're not going to call the bull market just yet. But I will say that we had an event the other night. [29:39] And there were people there who, [29:42] that weren't here for the conference, [29:45] And that we're just interested in crypto and like we're in Paris. And love boys. We love boys club. We love boys club or whatever. And like contemporary dancer or like some other designer and that they're just kind of curious or love boys club. And like we haven't seen that since the year for a year. Yeah. For when we first started boys club. And so. [30:02] I think that that's a really positive sign. Very positive sign. [30:05] Good vibes. [30:06] Good vibes. Good vibes. And then third, final note, not a lot about AI. Nothing. [30:11] The only sentiment about AI is dunking on people who have pivoted to AI. It's the only sentiment. [30:18] Kraken is a crypto OG. They have more than 10 million clients around the world that trust them with their crypto needs. They're one of the largest crypto platforms out there with some of the highest security standards in the industry. So you can rest easy that your funds and your privacy are safe for the keeping.

[30:41] every day of the year. This is a true story. I've actually hit them up a few times with very dumb questions about our account, and they were so nice and so patient. It just takes a few minutes to get started today at kraken.com backslash boys club. [30:54] Okay, personal feelings? [30:57] Personal feelings. Conference feelings. Conference feelings. I've only cried once. You have cried. You have cried. I was going to bring that up, but I'm glad you said it first because I didn't want to make you feel bad. It was a subtle cry. [31:06] It was a quick cry. I let it out and then I was like, okay, I'm over it. The heart of it was coming from feeling of being overwhelmed by being perceived. [31:16] by people. Totally. And- [31:19] People... [31:20] Who listened to the podcast, who... [31:24] read the newsletter, who love Voice Club. It's all incredible. Or who maybe don't love Voice Club. Who, yeah, who have opinions about Voice Club. [31:32] And... [31:33] have perceived me [31:35] through these channels that I willingly [31:39] have put out there and promote. So it's no like, [31:42] Not feeling bad for myself. [31:44] But... [31:44] It is overwhelming for that opinion to just incessantly be coming at you all day. [31:49] And... [31:50] having to digest those opinions. [31:53] and try to take what is useful [31:56] And what I should just let go. [31:58] and what is feedback and what is not feedback and [32:02] It can be really overwhelming. Yeah. So the experience is we... [32:06] have conversations with people. We say we're part of Boys Club and [32:11] they'll have a reaction and opinion one way or another. Obviously, when we're at Boys Club events,

[32:16] Largely, those opinions are positive, but even within those events, [32:19] We still get notes. [32:21] Get notes from folks. [32:23] And, you know, [32:24] you there's like a constant like sort of [32:28] running algorithm. We're in LLM processing all the feedback. We're processing, we're LLMs. We're trying to build algorithms that are positive, [32:38] and that help us be productive in that feedback. For example, we take things in and we're like, okay, [32:44] Do I maybe it was a negative note and it's OK. I could like I could make the decision to be really pulled down by this. [32:51] No, and have it actually... [32:53] To be honest, ruin my night. Yeah. [32:54] It's like taking context for how that was said and, [32:58] their level of familiarity and sort of buy-in with Boys Club. There's so many things to be [33:04] evaluating when notes come in and just that process, the process of evaluating like the context for the decision coming in. [33:12] Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. And because everyone has an opinion, everyone wants to share it. And [33:17] I also want to make sure that this doesn't sound like we can't handle critical feedback. Or we want people's opinion. I genuinely... [33:26] am curious. Totally. And a lot of the feedback is coming from me asking people. Totally. Totally. So it's not about not wanting feedback or not wanting critical feedback. It's about [33:35] the process of dealing, processing that feedback. [33:39] It is taxing while we're here in this environment. But it is fun only. Tina, at the beginning of this week,

[33:47] Monday morning, 7.30, we're getting some coffee talking about... [33:52] The week, the schedule, the days, the things. [33:55] And she had a great insight. [33:57] And you were just like... [33:59] Let's just have fun. [34:00] Let's be fun only. [34:02] And the thought had not crossed my mind. [34:05] That's so dark. I was like, fun, fun. [34:09] And so that's been my North Star. Yeah, it's been my North Star too. And it's helped. Great job. Great, great job. Fun only. [34:16] It is fun only. [34:18] So fun only is the feeling. Fun only feelings. Okay. Bye. [34:24] Dina, where are we going to be in September? We are going to be at Permissionless in Austin, Texas. Permissionless too. It's happening. And we're curating the culture track for the conference. So if you're into the stuff we talk about here, you should come and have a good time with us. So email your boss. [34:41] Tell them that you need to go and buy your ticket now. They will never be as cheap as they are today. And we also have a promo code in our Discord for Boy Scout members. Ooh, come hang in Austin. [34:55] This is where we make an ask. We're in our call to action era. It's CTA times. Rate and review this podcast. Subscribe to our newsletter. And if you're feeling extra generous... [35:07] Send it to one friend. [35:10] Thank you for listening. We love you. Bye.