I Tried Flying an Air Taxi With Archer’s CEO (Midnight Simulator)

[00:00] Archer was actually the first sponsor of Sorcery ever. At Archer we are building next generation of aviation. There was a change in technology where all of a sudden you could use multiple electric engines to fly airplanes. A helicopter will have one big rotor. Instead of having one rotor that takes off and lands vertically, we have multiple sets of engines, multiple sets of propellers that allows you to take off and land vertically like a helicopter but then transition and fly forward like an airplane. Well building airplanes is hard. It takes a lot of time, it takes a lot [00:30] a lot of political support. We've had to have new laws written. This is the first new category in aviation in 60 years. We were selected as the exclusive air taxi provider for the LA 28 Summer Olympics. And that was a huge, huge deal. And Reddit played actually a big part in our ability to not only just go public, but also to build a huge retail following. And so what the Reddit community has done has found like their own way to come together and support these companies in a really unique way. I know it's surprising, but, uh, it's [00:57] Heh. [00:59] There's a giraffe. Where did this come from? 20 aircrafts times a thousand markets is 20,000 aircrafts times [01:06] $5 million selling price is a lot of money. [01:11] you [01:16] you [01:18] Hi, it's Molly from Sorcery. We're here today at a secret HQ tour of Archer. Let's go in. [01:26] - Okay. [01:26] - Okay. [01:29] - You had a crazy year. Archer's raised over $4 billion. You got the new administration to sign an executive order.

[01:39] What else is going on? Well building airplanes is hard. [01:42] and it takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of money, but it also takes a lot of political support. [01:46] And so we have had [01:47] the good fortune of an administration that has been extremely supportive to us [01:52] And I know a lot of people say that, but it's actually super true in our case. We've had to have... [01:57] new laws written. This is the first new category in aviation in 60 years. [02:01] And so having not only just the FAA on board, [02:04] the Department of Transportation on board, even as high as the president who mentioned it in his campaign speech, [02:10] It's really had to take a lot of people to help us. [02:12] get this done. [02:13] And so I'll give you a specific example. [02:16] we were selected as the exclusive air taxi provider for the LA 28 Summer Olympics. And that was a huge, huge deal. [02:23] But in order to get from where we are today into 125, [02:27] to the Olympics in 2028, there's a lot of work that has to get done. [02:31] And so we went to the White House. [02:33] And we spoke with the Secretary of Transportation. We spoke with a lot of the different members. And we said, we need some kind of plan to help [02:40] really the industry, not just Archer, but the industry go from [02:44] Concept. [02:45] to flying around to our cities to ultimately scaling into the Olympics. [02:49] And so we came up with this concept [02:50] around what they call the EIPP or E-VTOL integration pilot program. And that was to allow these aircrafts to start flying in the cities [02:59] in the US as soon as next year. [03:01] And so what they're going to do is they're actually going to pick five cities, [03:04] And they're going to be hopefully big cities. I think actually Los Angeles, within Los Angeles, will be selected as one of them. Love L.A. L.A., of course. And...

[03:13] They're gonna let us start flying in the cities, but what it's going to do is really help the confident side [03:18] of the industry where [03:20] It's like the first time you saw Waymos. It was a really big deal. [03:23] Probably the first time you ever took away. Have you ever taken away, Mo? [03:26] - Yeah. - It's quite an awesome experience, but kind of the 10th time you've taken away Mo, it's sort of like whatever, it's just a part of everyday society. So we needed a way [03:34] for the general public to see these aircrafts [03:36] and to just become okay with it. So it's sort of our Waymo-like moment. So five cities will get announced. It'll start very conservatively, point-to-point flights, daytime flights, high reserves, and allow us to [03:49] showcase the technology, show the safety, and really just kind of tamp the pressure down to the public so that they understand that this is something that is going to be normal in their cities. It's something that I think people should expect to see. And by the time we get to the Olympics, it'll almost be boring. And so it won't be this big high pressure moment for them to get it done. [04:09] I feel like every time I go to Connecticut to visit my family, my dad's like, I wish I just had an Archer to go to the airport with or pick you up or go to the city. Okay, so you've been building this company. [04:21] for many, many, many, many years. [04:23] It's very, very difficult. [04:25] But in the last year, this new administration has clearly unlocked something that like other administrations have not unlocked for many sectors of tech. So what is that feeling like for you? Like, do you feel like you've kind of hit this? [04:39] new growth trajectory. So the last administration, they created the framework for the industry. So I do think it's bipartisan in the sense that everybody agrees that

[04:49] America should lead in aviation. So I think that is kind of clear. [04:52] but [04:53] actionizing that. [04:55] and putting a plan together for that [04:56] The last administration [04:58] was absent. I literally could not get a meeting with Secretary [05:02] be Buttigieg. I couldn't do it. He just wouldn't take the meeting. And so I don't know if it just wasn't important to him or... [05:07] whatever his reasons were, but as soon as the new administration got into place, as soon as Secretary Duffy was put into place, [05:14] Literally within five weeks I had a meeting with him. And I've met him probably on a monthly basis ever since then. [05:20] He's been there and there's been executive orders put in place, specific business plans on how to get these aircrafts to market. [05:26] And so when I say that the administration has been extremely helpful to the industry, [05:32] you can see the evidence, it's very clear. And so, I mean, it's been, I've been to the White House many times [05:38] We've been at events at Mar-a-Lago. We've been [05:41] really [05:42] all the major agencies have gotten together to come support the industry. And it's not even just an Archer thing, it's an industry thing. [05:48] because [05:49] They believe in two things. [05:51] One. [05:51] Reindustrialization of America is critical, meaning manufacturing jobs, [05:55] and building stuff here [05:57] in the country is important. [05:58] In two, [06:00] America leading in these new cutting-edge technologies. And when you have both of those things [06:07] at such a [06:09] high pressure, high stake moment in time where everything is changing, defense industry is changing, civil aviation is changing. [06:16] It is critical that the government supports that. And we've seen that with clear evidence.

[06:21] Before we get too far, and I think [06:24] Maybe this audience might not have as much background information as I do. I've interviewed you before at Reindustrialize. [06:33] Archer was actually the first sponsor of Sorcery ever. Thank you very much. It was the biggest deal I've ever signed. But for people who don't know what Archer is and what air taxis are, could you explain that? [06:49] Sure. [06:50] Thank you. [06:50] At Archer, we are building the next generation of aviation. [06:55] So there was a change in technology where all of a sudden you could use multiple electric engines to fly airplanes. And so a helicopter will have one big rotor, [07:04] instead of having one rotor that takes off and lands vertically, [07:07] we have multiple sets of engines, multiple sets of propellers that allows you to take off and land vertically like a helicopter, but then transition and fly forward like an airplane. So it's a combo, it's this new kind of half helicopter, half airplane vehicle, and it can be used [07:21] in and around urban environments. Think about [07:24] flying from Manhattan to JFK, a trip that might take you [07:27] 60 or 90 minutes on the ground in a car that you could fly in literally five or 10 minutes. And so there's an ability now to create an aircraft that is super safe, [07:36] similar safety levels as big commercial airliners. It's super affordable because [07:40] The aircrafts are simple. [07:41] They don't take the same amount of maintenance a helicopter does. They have such a high safety standard, and they can do so many trips in a given day. [07:48] And they're quiet, so it gives you the ability to really scale this, so you can ultimately drive that cost down.

[07:52] and it's done in a way that is not disruptive to the environments because the aircrafts are really, really quiet. [07:57] So you have a new platform that's really, it's like day one of that. [08:01] first new category at the FAA in 60 years. [08:03] and it's an opportunity to build a whole next generation of aviation. But it doesn't stop there. And so this gets back to really like [08:10] why is the administration so involved in the industry? [08:14] If you look at what's happening from a defense perspective, [08:17] you have the whole world shifting from [08:20] very expensive centralized systems building these exquisite products to what they call autonomous and attributable or [08:26] think autonomy at scale. It's a totally different type of dynamic. And so we are building a whole new generation of aircraft where it's designed to be built at scale. There's a lot of the analysts will tell you they think it's a multi hundred billion dollar market or a several trillion dollar market. So the defense industry looked at this and said, well, [08:44] If you are willing to or interested in building for defense applications, [08:48] and we could think about scaling manufacturing from the very beginning, it's an incredible opportunity to actually help [08:55] re-industrialize not just the civil aviation [08:57] you know, part of the manufacturing base, but also the defense, [09:00] manufacturing base. So if you think that during certain surge times, there's an ability to shift capacity from the civil side to the defense side, [09:09] and in quieter times from the defense side back to the civil side. So if you think about it from that perspective, [09:14] A start over is a really incredible opportunity to design aircraft that are built to do that. [09:19] Well in China, don't they regulate that every new ship that's built or every boat that's built has to be

[09:26] certified to be able to carry [09:29] military vehicles on it or something like that yeah so [09:33] In China they have [09:35] made it mandatory that ships of a certain size [09:39] have to be [09:40] strong enough and fortified enough to be able to carry military assets as well as [09:44] civilian assets. [09:45] So it gives them the ability to flex back and forth. [09:48] that on top of the fact that they build [09:51] so much really gives them this interesting [09:53] you know, advantage of where we are today. [09:55] So when you look at the aviation industry, [09:57] by designing it from the beginning, this new category, [10:01] they call it advanced air mobility or [10:02] electric aircrafts or hybrid electric aircrafts [10:05] We have an ability to actually build for scale from the very beginning, [10:09] with the [10:10] sort of framework of both civil and defense. [10:13] that can be interchanged, changing parts, [10:15] similar supply chains, [10:16] all US domestic based [10:18] That can allow us to scale when we need it. [10:21] So you've also had some pretty significant partnerships in the defense area. Can you share more about these? Sure. I love these companies. So our big partner in the defense industry is Andrel. And so Andrel came to us [10:34] and really understood that [10:38] the entire defense [10:40] Industry is changing. [10:41] It's changing from these expensive, centralized, exquisite systems [10:45] TO [10:46] Um, [10:46] much more scalable or [10:49] you know, think autonomous systems that are designed to [10:54] address the future conflicts that are pretty obvious.

[10:57] Meaning, if you can [11:00] fight an enemy with unmanned systems [11:03] it's much better. [11:04] from the perspective of [11:05] cost you can lower the cost you don't need the redundancy in these aircrafts the redundancy in these vehicles the way you would [11:10] with [11:11] manned systems. [11:12] you can [11:13] risk the aircraft's [11:14] at a much greater degree because there's not a human behind that. [11:17] and you can have advantage but [11:19] Conversely, if the adversary is doing that, you certainly don't want to put a manned asset up against an unmanned asset. [11:24] And so you saw this new change happen. [11:26] And first we started to see products happen on the [11:30] fixed wing site, so Andrell's project there. [11:33] It's called FURY. It is a CCA or a collaborative combat aircraft. [11:37] where aircrafts are designed to fly alongside manned aircraft [11:41] and now they're starting to explore similar concepts with rotorcraft. [11:44] So think [11:45] you know, the big rotorcraft systems are. [11:47] Blackhawks and Apaches and E22s and Chinooks. [11:49] And so how can they complement or even build [11:53] new products that can [11:55] fly with or fight with those same type of rotorcraft [11:58] that can be designed to do the same things, which are [12:00] similar capabilities or better capabilities at substantially lower cost. [12:04] to address the sort of future conflicts, meaning unmanned, [12:07] and scalable or what they call a tritable aircraft. [12:11] Mm-hmm. [12:13] Sorcery is brought to you by Brex, the financial stack trusted by more than 30,000 companies, including one in three venture-backed startups in the U.S. Nearly 40% of startups fail because they run out of cash. Brex is literally built to help founders avoid that. Unlike traditional banks that let your money sit idle, chipping away at it with fees, Brex is designed to help you spend smarter and move faster.

[12:43] powerful account. You can send and receive money globally at lightning speeds, get 20 times the standard FDIC coverage through their partner banks, and even high yield from day one. With same day and even same hour liquidity, access your funds anytime. Companies like Scale AI, DoorDash, Service Titan, HIMSS, Anthropic, Flexport, Robinhood, and Plaid trust and use Brex. [13:13] So when we announced we were going public, we were actually 50 people. [13:21] and it was pretty shocking. It was actually an interesting period of time where all of a sudden [13:26] Hardware companies could be back. This is back in 2021. [13:29] Before that, [13:31] really before Tesla, before SpaceX, [13:33] it was impossible to raise money as a hardware. [13:35] Founder, it was impossible. You just couldn't do it. Everything was software. [13:38] SaaS, marketplace, whatever type of product. [13:41] And so like the world changed and that was like unbelievably exciting. [13:45] To build airplanes, it's extremely expensive. You're not even in the game without a billion dollars, because it takes a huge team for many, many years [13:52] to really develop core technologies that can be safe, reliable, [13:55] and ultimately put into production. [13:58] So when we announced that we were going public, [14:00] Within six weeks, [14:01] I had [14:03] the most unbelievable experience [14:05] where I had three-letter agencies coming after me, I had lawsuits, I had pretty much everybody came out of the woodwork to try to take us down.

[14:13] So when you have an industry that's so heavily consolidated, they don't want new entrants. [14:18] And so Boeing sued us instantly. We're now friends with them. They're good. They're our friends. But they were ruthless when we started. And there's all these stories, legendary stories. [14:29] about Boeing and competition and all that stuff. [14:31] And it was like my welcome to the NFL moment. [14:33] It was like, it just got [14:35] actually like [14:35] checked like right into the chin and it was like, you know, welcome to the [14:40] You know, welcome to the NFL. [14:42] And so, [14:43] That was like the big guys coming after us. [14:45] And then, [14:46] Along the way, it's also been really brutal where you've seen the competitors also try to do things to edge you out. [14:53] actually have a [14:54] developed a friendship with Alexis from Reddit. - Yeah. - Amazing guy, just absolutely amazing founder. [15:00] And Reddit played actually a big part in our ability [15:02] to not only just go public, but also to build a huge retail following. [15:06] And so retail has been a big part of our story. [15:09] And so we've had an amazing retail base [15:11] that's been super supportive. [15:12] long term thinkers, [15:14] not judging us on quarter to quarter, really seeing like what can be possible, really trying to find the next Tesla, trying to find the next SpaceX. [15:21] And so what the Reddit community has done has found their own way to come together [15:26] and support these companies. [15:27] in a really unique way. And so I really, I get a lot of energy from that. I think it's amazing. And so we try to do things to help the public. I think Elon did an amazing job by [15:36] I think he was the first one to say, "Hey, retail can ask questions on the quarterly conference calls." [15:41] or retail can come to the big launch events, or retail can be a part of their journey. So we're trying to incorporate a lot of the similar types of dynamics because

[15:50] It's been such a big part of our story. We are a relatively small company. [15:53] you know, people wise where, you know, 1500 people or so [15:56] but even market cap wise [15:57] But if you look at a volume traded throughout our stock, we will often be a top 10 most heavily traded stock on the New York Stock Exchange. That will happen all the time. [16:05] That is because of the retail. [16:06] And the thing that does for us [16:09] is that is a form of liquidity, meaning we are able to raise a lot of capital. And so when you have a lot of volume going through the stocks, a lot of the investors [16:17] have the ability to play, meaning they can come in and out of your stock. [16:21] If you don't have liquidity, there's no way for investors to really acquire your shares or even get out once they do. [16:26] And so it gives an ability for a company like Archer to actually have a chance to go out there, because we can raise the capital and this fan base can follow us. [16:33] and really stay with us for a long period of time. So super grateful to that community, super grateful to Alexis for starting credit and helping a lot of startups like Archer get going. - I hate to be rude, but we've passed this now almost twice, and I can't help [16:50] but be distracted by this [16:52] huge [16:53] candy wall behind you. What is this? [16:56] Oh God. [16:57] That was... [16:59] An idea from... [17:01] one of the archers to help [17:03] let's call it, I think I'm gonna say, [17:05] satisfy his ADHD, have him stop smoking, and come over here and constantly go get food. It's dangerous. [17:12] Yeah. [17:13] successfully been able to eliminate at least half the candy and put [17:16] nuts and dried fruits down there, almost half of it, as you can see.

[17:20] There also is a [17:21] a Coca-Cola machine here as well. [17:24] But, [17:25] this is our wall of sin. And so I think it's more of actually when you're having a bad day, you come over and you sugar load. Yeah. And, you know, you eat away your... [17:33] your sorrows. What's your biggest vice here? [17:36] For me, I [17:38] I find there was a Barstel Sports phrase [17:41] fridge cigarettes like sodas. I think it's funny and it's done such a good job for me of like like [17:48] I have one diet soda per day. That's like my max. I won't let myself have more than one. [17:52] And I call it a fridge sig because it's a way for me to remind myself to stop doing that, to stop drinking this stuff. But that is my vice. [17:59] Okay. [18:00] All right. [18:01] I have my eyes on the chocolate covered almonds. Okay, back to the retail. [18:07] the retail market because i find that so fascinating [18:09] I've interviewed a handful of public company CEOs so far this year, [18:15] and have also interviewed their investors and so on and so forth, whether it's KOTU, [18:20] or [18:21] interviewing Keith Raboy who had just joined Open Door at the time. I just interviewed Vlad Tenev. Actually in the conversation with Vlad, [18:29] He brought up the point like, and we talked about this for a little bit because I saw this with Open Door, it's like, [18:36] people, [18:37] put down going public a lot because you know you have to do quarterly filings you have to do all these earnings calls [18:44] it's more work you have to get a different team you have to be super tight on everything but like so it seems like something such an operational burden but what i'm hearing from you and what i'm hearing from other people is if you're really good at telling your story and you know how to actually like engage the retail community

[19:01] It's probably like one of the best things you could do for your company. [19:04] I was waiting to see if it was going to be a real question because you hit every name drop. You're like, I got Vlad. I got Keith. I got everybody. I was like, geez, because I said like Secretary Duffy. I was like, I don't know if she was going to tell us that. Well, I also got Emil Michael. Okay, there we go. There we go. No, I think going public is actually a great thing. Mm-hmm. [19:22] I think it's a great thing for the right company at the right period of time. For us, it was really great because [19:27] It gave us the ability to tell our story and to evangelize it. [19:30] And-- [19:31] The sort of love-hate ones do really well. Like, Kramer has always hated us and just bashes us at every chance he can get. [19:37] And in a way it just brings more, almost like attention to it. And so as long as you're like, you sort of can blow that stuff off and it doesn't bother you, I think it's actually great because we're just telling the stories. [19:47] what's been pretty amazing is [19:50] Um, [19:50] It's made its way, because it's so popular on Reddit, it's made its way into the schools. [19:55] and so the kids know about it. And so for me that's actually really [19:58] exciting because [20:00] I think the sciences are really important for kids to study. And so I think that's great when they start talking about airplanes, aerodynamics, becoming a pilot. [20:09] Speaking of, you're going to have to [20:11] fly some of the simulators today, we'll see if-- - So I've actually wanted to become a pilot for like a really long time. I've wanted to get my pilot's license. - We're gonna test you out today and see if you're any good. - I think if I start, I'll start with [20:21] an Archer license. [20:22] Okay. [20:23] I'll get my own, it'll be cool, you know. [20:26] Get the best version possible. [20:27] Well, we'll gladly have you as a pilot if... [20:30] That's how you do today.

[20:32] Okay. We'll see if you can fly a plane. All right. [20:36] I'm going to be so upset if I crash this. [20:40] Okay. [20:41] So... [20:42] Left hand. [20:44] on this little cork handle. [20:46] right hand [20:48] on a second. [20:49] Do I put my feet here? You do. And then your hand, right hand there. Okay. So when you start to pull back on that left handle, you're going to get air, you're going to start to get airborne. What's going to happen is [20:59] the aircraft is going to start to turn [21:01] Your. [21:02] It'll start to bank. [21:04] the opposite direction [21:06] to kind of stabilize it. And when the aircraft starts to spin... [21:09] Like if it starts to spin to the right, [21:12] step on the left pedal. [21:14] What? Right. [21:16] It's dancing, you're dancing. [21:18] Keep pulling with your left hand. There you go. Now you're flying. Wow, we're doing so good! Uh-oh, uh-oh. [21:24] Uh-oh. [21:25] - No! - Uh-oh. [21:28] Am I supposed to be going in a direction? [21:31] You kind of want to. [21:33] the aircraft [21:35] and you'll gain some speed. [21:36] I think I'm... [21:37] Guys, I'm not gonna lie, I think I'm doing a great job. Start to lower your power. [21:41] Take the left hand, push it down a little bit. [21:44] Thank you. [21:46] I landed! Alright, good job. Come on out, we'll help you. [21:53] We'll help you try to fly midday now. [21:55] I'm not going to tell you, you're just going to sit and you're going to try this one out. This airplane is much, much easier to fly. [22:01] You'll understand the difference of

[22:03] having a fly-by-wire system where the computers are doing everything versus in that machine you are trying to do everything. [22:10] . [22:15] This is the Midnight Simulator. So why don't you come on up and hop on it. [22:21] Okay, so [22:23] with your right hand. [22:25] Pull back. [22:26] the difference of the, uh, [22:27] of the machines. [22:28] with your left hand. [22:30] Um... [22:31] Point that to the left. [22:32] Where is this? [22:34] This is in Salinas. [22:38] and you can pull back a little with your right hand too to make it go [22:42] higher. [22:44] So you can see as you go faster, [22:46] the [22:47] propellers start to tilt down [22:50] and you start to get into full wing-borne flight. So you can see they've almost fully closed. [22:56] So this is what we call a fly-by-wire aircraft, so the computers are doing everything. You're doing very little. [23:01] So now you can really, you're just flying like an airplane. [23:04] So really, you can kind of point the direction of the airplane whichever way you want. [23:09] So turn it to whichever way you want. [23:11] It really doesn't take much training at all to get going. Of course, there's a lot of things you'll have to learn how to do [23:16] operating in the airspace. [23:18] So you are [23:19] switched on now flying like an airplane you can also you know switch back and fly [23:24] you know, like a helicopter. So you are roughly a thousand feet in the air, you can see here. How do I go faster? [23:31] You are slowly going faster at about 114 knots now.

[23:35] So you can see the propellers that are spinning on the aircraft. [23:38] There are multiple sets of propellers and the [23:41] ability for electric engines to be scaled really far down [23:46] gives you an ability to build an aircraft with lots of redundancy. And that's what those multiple sets of engines propellers really represent. [23:51] The aircrafts are designed to take off and land vertically so you can, you know, it's convenient, you can take off near and near points of destination. [23:59] and land. [24:00] you know, where, you know, close to where you want to go. So instead of driving all the way out to an airport, you can, of course, go to like, [24:06] heliports, what we call vertiports. [24:07] but they also can take off and land conventionally. [24:10] So like an airplane, and that's more of a safety case or an energy saving boat. [24:14] So it can do both airplane mode and helicopter mode. I think that's one of the unique features of this aircraft. [24:20] Turing is training the next generation of AI with tasks that require real expertise and real world judgment. That's why companies like NVIDIA, Anthropic, Salesforce, and Gemini partner with Turing. Turing builds realistic reinforcement learning environments and data systems based on real operational traces. The kind of infrastructure frontier labs need to train superintelligence. Visit Turing.com slash S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y. [24:50] How was flying the simulators? [24:54] I don't think I'm going to ever fly a helicopter. [24:58] That was... [25:00] Not very fun. I like being good at things. Knowing how to control whatever I'm doing. And that was just chaos and I'm never getting into a helicopter now. I'm not just saying that either. But it's like everything you do, you feel like you're like fighting a force behind it and it's constantly balancing like 10 things at once. That's literally what it's doing. Every action has a reaction.

[25:21] and you are constantly, you push left, you also have to make sure you're stopping from going right. [25:25] So it is a very complex machine and it helps give you, I think, respect for helicopter pilots, how talented they are. [25:31] but also the simplicity of flying. [25:34] playing aircraft like midnight. [25:35] Yeah, midnight was very fun. I think I had too much fun in that. And I don't know why, but when we were walking over, I was like, [25:43] Kind of just like... [25:45] easier than driving a boat, it feels like. But it's like fun because you get to see things. -And it gets you where you want to go pretty fast. -Yeah. So, I want to ask a more personal question. You've been the CEO of a public company for a while. [25:57] You've gotten the support of the Trump administration. You've raised billions of dollars. [26:03] What? [26:03] has this process been like for you and how does it feel [26:07] Well, when I started Archer, I knew that [26:09] If we got to a certain point, it would require an incredible amount of capital. [26:13] So one is super lucky. I feel super lucky that there's an opportunity to even do this, meaning I was born at a period of time. I started the company at a certain time when [26:22] energy density of batteries got good enough, the political landscape became [26:26] favorable for us to do this, and ultimately there was enough capital in the markets that were willing to fund this kind of stuff. That's really crazy. [26:33] genuinely like the American dream, like the ability to do this. I don't think there's another country [26:38] that you could do something like this in. [26:40] I mean, [26:41] between the capital markets being favorable, between literally the top political leaders supporting this. I mean, truly, that's a gift. [26:48] But it's also [26:49] something that I don't want to take for granted, and that we work exceptionally hard. I mean, truly, it's funny, like if you follow any of my social stuff, I only post literally

[26:59] I would say a quarter of the actual places, maybe even less, maybe 10%, of the places we go. I mean, it's probably on an everyday basis because we are setting up global infrastructure. [27:09] And so I do not take this for granted at all, and we're going to work [27:13] unbelievably hard because it is a moment in time that we have to be successful to go do this. [27:18] I mean, I laugh because I do follow you on socials. I follow Nikhil on socials. And every day you're meeting a new family of royalty. You're meeting a new leader of a country. You're constantly in the UAE. I see you at the White House all the time. You guys are... [27:35] in multiple places, sometimes like a day. So how do you maintain like mental clarity and at least some sanity through all that travel? [27:44] One is you have to sleep on the airplanes. [27:47] So that is a critical component of this. Two is you train your body to be able to handle any time zone. [27:53] So you can withstand that. And three is [27:57] If the project is exciting enough, [27:59] and the adrenaline is going, this is like no problem. This is a gift. [28:04] This is the [28:05] It's it's not I can't imagine doing anything else. [28:08] It truly is a gift. And so the trips we take are not vanity. They're always very carefully chosen and I won't go unless I think there's an actual real outcome that's important for the company to go do it because time is just too valuable. The money that we've raised represents time. [28:21] And I think of myself as I'm in the time business, and I try to give the team more time [28:25] to be able to accomplish these really hard things. [28:27] And so we're working night and day because the time is finite.

[28:32] to get this done. [28:33] And so it happens to be a period of time where things are good. These are the good old days. [28:37] right now, but I don't take that for granted because the time will run out, the money will run out, and we have to be successful in building a real business. [28:44] You've had some partnerships and relationships built in the UAE. Why is that? [28:49] part of the world so important. [28:51] for this business. [28:52] It's funny, now people looking at the UAE, they're like, "Oh, the Hebeetall guys are [28:57] Why are they all there? [28:59] Back in 2021, Mubaba became an Archer investor. So they were an investor very early in sort of our public journey. [29:06] and it was kind of kicked off a lot of the [29:10] action in the UAE and then when we go there kind of our competitors follow us to all these different places and so it's helpful that they're there too because we we kind of both help take these markets forward but Mubadda invested and then you had the whole ecosystem really come alive so Mubadda actually was an incredible partner that took us around all the different parts of the ecosystem the infrastructure players the regulators the different capital providers the operators the maintenance providers and really formed [29:40] are. [29:40] And so when they started doing that, then you saw the rest of the region kind of also become interested. So Saudi has been very interested, Qatar is very interested, Bahrain is very interested. So you've seen kind of that whole region of the broader kind of GCC, you know, be interested. [29:55] It's a very difficult climate, very sandy and very hot. [29:59] And so it's a good training ground for us from the extreme side of things.

[30:03] But I would say the community in the UAE, specifically Abu Dhabi, has been unbelievably welcoming to us and willing to, I would say, bet early on an industry that typically... [30:14] a lot of different countries were very, very conservative with. [30:17] Now it looks a little more obvious, but back then it was definitely, they were taking a big risk. [30:21] Are there any other regions you're really excited about? [30:24] Yeah, I mean, I actually think it's a product that is sort of viewed as a very US-centric kind of thing, but it's truly a global product. [30:33] their [30:35] If you get certified in the US, you have the ability to really kind of go anywhere. [30:38] So that like really opens up the whole world for us. So anywhere where there's a lot of people, a lot of traffic, [30:45] And, you know, [30:47] a focus on growing the economy. [30:49] is fantastic. So if you look at even a place like India, you know, incredibly booming, you know, economy, population, unbelievable congestion, like that's an incredible place to go. [30:58] to go, but it truly is a global product. [31:01] In fact, a lot of people look at the EBTOL industry and they think about it as like AirTaxi. [31:07] as the way it's gonna work, as you're gonna have, you know, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna be in Manhattan, you're gonna be able to take these aircrafts like to the airport or to the Hamptons. I think that's true over time. [31:16] I actually think the way these aircrafts come to market is a little bit different than that. [31:20] So the challenge with being an OEM-- [31:24] and an operator and, and, and, and, and. A demand aggregator, an infrastructure player, you know, a pilot training company, a maintenance company. That's a lot of stuff to do at once. It's very hard to actually build a real business that will ultimately be profitable and allow you to survive time.

[31:37] So I think it's super important that [31:39] Archer sells products and I don't believe my competitors are going to become these like operators and put all the stuff out there I just think that's a nice story to tell I think the reality is the only way to survive and be a real business is [31:50] is actually to sell aircraft. [31:52] And you'll start to see them change their tune from, [31:54] We're never going to do that to now we're starting to do that. [31:56] starting to hire sales forces and that kind of stuff, because it's the only way to build a real business here to make any money. [32:01] I don't think the cities are ready to take mass adoption of these products yet either. So if you went to New York City and you're like, "Hey, New York City, could you take 20 aircraft?" They'd be like, "Sure, no problem. There's 50 helicopters today." [32:13] But if you tried to inject 200 or 500 aircraft into New York City, [32:17] I don't think they would let you do that. I think you'd get blocked immediately. I think people would go crazy. [32:22] You know people be kicking these things and spray painting on and stop the globalization. It'd be a giant meltdown across the city Not nothing to do against New York any city around the world would be like that change way most the same thing happened with way most changes hard and [32:35] Right? [32:36] I think it's much more realistic to think each city will get 20 aircraft or 30 aircraft or 50 aircraft. [32:42] You'll call it in the tens. [32:43] And then over time, what you'll do is build up liquidity. So year one might be 20, year two might be 30, year three might be 50, and so on. [32:51] But, [32:52] The question is how deep can you do that? [32:55] So, [32:55] you know, [32:56] could the 500th biggest market handle 20 or 50 aircrafts? Could the 1,000th biggest market handle 20 or 50 aircrafts? So I like to use the analogy or just help people kind of conceptualize this. What is the 1,000th biggest market in the world? If you look at it on a population perspective,

[33:11] It's a market like a Tucson, Arizona. [33:13] And so what are helicopters used for? [33:15] VIP, tourism, hospitals, like there's use cases today that are very like understandable for help for helicopters and [33:22] So if I had a structurally better product, meaning a safer and lower cost product, [33:26] Could I go into those markets? [33:28] 1,000th, 1,000th. [33:30] you know, biggest market. [33:31] and sell 20 aircraft. [33:32] I think the answer to that is easily you could. There's hospitals, there's tourism, there's VIP in Tucson that exist. [33:38] There's probably 20 helicopters there today. [33:40] So [33:41] 20 aircrafts times a thousand markets is 20,000 aircrafts times [33:45] $5 million selling prices. [33:47] A lot of money. [33:48] And so you're all of a sudden talking about $100 billion business. [33:51] that likely has a recurring revenue stream, maintenance stream, of $10 billion or $15 billion per year. [33:57] And so without ever actually like dominating any individual city, you can build an absolutely enormous business. And that's why I think these will be trillion dollar companies because [34:07] I think it's breath, not depth. [34:08] to begin, it's depth over time. So air taxi will happen over time. [34:13] It's not gonna happen year one, it's probably not gonna happen year five, but it will happen by year 10, and it will certainly be scaled by year 20. [34:19] So if you can step back and look at this from a perspective, the game shifts. It stops becoming a, you know, how do we like, [34:26] you know, mobilize and get 500 air taxis into New York, and it turns into how do we manufacture as many of these things as possible? [34:34] deploy them as wide as possible, and survive that period of time to get the production working, the manufacturing working, to where you're a viable operating business. Don't forget, Tesla went through their scaling moment, they called it manufacturing hell, where they had to figure out

[34:48] the machine that builds the machines, [34:50] to be profitable. That is a hard thing to do. This industry is nowhere close to that yet. And that is the thing that I think about. That's what I work on, is how do we build that [34:58] to make sure we can survive this long-term thing and ultimately build, I think, an extremely important business. [35:03] Quick note before we keep going. I've been investing on Public for a while now, and it's a really solid platform that combines stocks, bonds, options and crypto with incredible AI tools that let you do things like build a completely custom investable index from a prompt. Right now, Public will give you an uncapped 1% match when you transfer your portfolio. Check it out at public.com slash sorcery public investing for those who take it seriously paid for by public investing. Full disclosures in the description. [35:33] sponsors is Brex and they're all about performance, specifically in the modern finance stack. A question I like to ask guests is, [35:42] around this topic. [35:44] who is someone because I believe that relationships and who you surround yourself is like really like a core component of your motivation and wanting to do things and like uh feeling supported so who is someone along the way or like [35:56] maybe throughout your life who has been a real impact on you or someone you admire? Yeah. I think I kind of break it down into like two categories. [36:03] from an operator's perspective, [36:06] there's like the ultimate [36:08] operator, which is Elon. [36:10] And if you watch what he's done, it is nothing short of [36:14] like, [36:15] Absolutely unbelievable. I mean truly unbelievable. [36:17] incredibly hard,

[36:19] engineering problems, manufacturing problems, scaling problems, regulatory problems, I mean everything. [36:24] Global problems, unbelievably difficult. [36:26] If I think about it and I'll call it, to me he's more of a mythical figure, that's not a real human, because I've never seen anything like that before. [36:33] If I think about that more in terms of like the real world, I think about it as my father, but from a very different perspective. [36:39] He has found happiness. [36:41] in, I'll call it in, [36:44] in my calmness. [36:45] And so for me, in the end, what is all this about? [36:50] And so I have found, for me, growth is what I chase. I enjoy growth. Being stagnant is not interesting. But actually being happy is super hard. That's a hard thing to do. And so I look at someone like my father who's found true happiness in what he does, and that is a gift to be able to have, because most people I know are not only not happy, they're extremely unhappy. [37:11] And so how do you go out and actually do something you want to do, result in something that can be you're proud of, but also ultimately happy at the same time? So when you ask me like, "How do you travel from this place to that place? How do you do that?" I think about it from the context of, [37:24] What makes me happy? How do I actually enjoy my life? [37:27] how to enjoy this ride and I try to frame my [37:30] sort of mental state around that. [37:32] What's the hardest challenge you've had to overcome? [37:36] hardest challenge I've had to overcome. [37:38] We can box it with an archer.

[37:43] I would say, [37:46] as an industry, [37:47] nobody believed in what we were doing. And the reality was we had to convince [37:53] not just investors, not even just regulators, but [37:56] I mean truly like cities [37:58] federal governments, [37:59] countries [38:00] that what we were doing was real. And for a long time, this was not viewed that way. [38:07] And the funny thing is, [38:08] The point at which I knew it was super real actually was probably one of the hardest things that happened, which was when Boeing attacked us right when we went public. That's when I actually knew it was real. [38:17] And so it was like what I thought was actually the hardest thing, which was trying to convince like the world that what we were doing was real and important to actually back what we're [38:25] um, [38:26] I knew it was real when I got attacked in a way I never thought could happen in America. [38:30] And so it's funny, when I look at [38:32] Elon or I even look at President Trump and I look at what a lot of people have been through from a tax perspective and [38:38] I [38:39] understand, I empathize with what they've been through because the way we've been attacked just over and over and over again, [38:45] And so I feel like that period of time was an interesting period for me where it was like, I thought that was the hardest thing we had to do. But the thing that became even harder than that was... [38:55] I mean, the vicious attacks that we really encountered. [38:59] was actually something that said we actually made it. [39:02] So that was almost like my big wake up moment. - 'Cause it was like validating that you're doing what you should be doing and it put more pressure on you? [39:10] If, if. [39:12] In America, I didn't think it was possible for a competitor to weaponize the government to come after you.

[39:19] And we saw that. It was unbelievable. [39:21] It was, you know, one of my engineers was set up to look like he was a Chinese spy. And it was totally faked. [39:27] And then what happened was in the news, [39:30] it was all conflated as if like, [39:32] You know Archer had done something when Archer didn't do anything and [39:35] And so all this stuff got mushed up together. And then the media just loved the headline. It was super juicy. [39:41] And so they just run with it. And once someone accuses you of something like really bad, it's hard to ever like [39:46] get that back in. So I always look at cases from the perspective of like, "What if that wasn't true?" It's very hard to undo that. [39:52] once things have been said. [39:54] So once Archer was attacked that way, it was very hard to clear our name. [39:58] And I was always so focused on clearing our name. And then I actually realized the best way to clear a name was actually to just get the product to market. [40:04] and nobody actually cares and the news cycles, people just move on. [40:08] And so it was just an interesting dynamic for me. [40:10] And so I do have lawyers around me at all times now because of that. I think I joke that I have a almost like a, [40:17] PhD level, like JD, MBA, whatever you want to call it, like in IP litigation, 'cause I've been through it at such a deep level. [40:25] And it's funny when companies that have not been through it come [40:29] I always find it, and especially they start [40:32] poking the bear, we are at a samurai level of sophistication when it comes to that. [40:37] And so I always find it, you know, quite humorous. [40:40] Damn. [40:41] That's crazy. [40:43] God. [40:44] Okay. [40:45] Well, what are you most looking forward to this year? [40:48] on both

[40:49] the civil defense side, there's huge things that are happening for the industry. [40:54] It's a really cool moment on the civil side. We're going to be able to showcase these aircrafts all across the country. [40:59] So the EIPP program is going to be, I think, a really big deal for our industry. [41:03] I think it will be sort of the moment that people really understand that these aircrafts are here and that you can see them flying around. [41:09] I think that's going to be a super big deal. So that's the summer. [41:12] of this year. [41:13] in on the defense side. [41:15] there are opportunities to win really big contracts. [41:18] And so I think that will be the case in 2026. [41:22] And so I'm hopeful that we'll be able to win a big contract. Those programs will ultimately get announced. [41:26] and we can be a major player on the defense side as well. [41:30] Godspeed. [41:31] That's awesome. Okay, Adam, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much for the tour. After hours and the building is still packed. That's a good sign. [41:40] Every day, seven days a week. I told employees here, look, I'm not a hard boss. [41:44] I just expect them to work half days, eight to eight. [41:47] - [41:49] That's really funny. I'm just going to ask a couple quick questions. Okay. What is the most surprising thing in this office you can legally show me? [41:58] most surprising thing in this office. [42:01] Um... [42:04] I know it's surprising, but, uh... [42:06] Ha! [42:08] There's a giraffe. Where did this come from? [42:12] What is this? [42:14] We have a big Reddit following, and there's a big community of what we call Archer Apes here, and they're hilarious. There's a group of people that have just become obsessed with the brand, and they started posting giraffes after everything that we would –

[42:28] Every time we post stuff, it became like this symbol. [42:31] I don't have a full understanding of what it even means. [42:34] But somebody one of the arch rapes sent me this draft. [42:37] So most surprising thing someone's ever sent me. [42:40] What is its name? It doesn't have a name, but as a sort of a shout out back to the Archer Apes, [42:47] We did file a trademark under, we called it a giraffe, [42:51] and the people went nuts online. [42:54] because it was as if we're going to name a plane to Rafa. It was really the legal, the lawyers did it, because they thought it was funny. [42:59] And so people are going crazy as if we're gonna build a plane called a giraffe. [43:03] Thank God for lawyers. [43:05] Thank God for them. [43:35] ever happened the weirdest thing that's ever happened um one time a politician i won't name the politician [43:40] It was a Dem, a politician [43:43] sent me a box and in the box was a note. [43:48] that said, "Hey Adam, I'd like to meet you." This is a very famous politician that you would know. [43:52] and said, "I'd like to meet you." - Biden? - No, "I would like to meet you." [43:56] And there was a phone. [43:58] And it said, call me.

[44:01] And I was like, who sends [44:04] a phone in the mail, I was like, this is definitely a trap. It's obviously the first thing I thought. So we literally called the FBI. [44:10] and said, "Hey, someone sent us this. "I'm definitely not turning it on. "We instantly put it into a fire safe. [44:14] and said it's either bugged, it's a bomb, it's like, who would do that? That's a crazy thing. [44:19] So we called the politicians office. It actually was real. They sent a phone. [44:22] And I said, if you want to talk, we just do a Zoom. Like, that might be a better way to do it than sending a phone. I even Googled the phone, and it was some weird brand. It was a Chinese brand I'd never seen before. [44:33] And so it was definitely like a major red flag. [44:36] How do you come back from the reputational damage? Don't they say first impressions matter? I don't know. That was a strange... Why would you send someone a Chinese phone to pop? [44:48] Oh my gosh. Wow. Okay. [44:51] Any other things I should be asking you? What else are you out there? [44:56] Oh, I do have one thing for you. [44:58] Um, so. [45:00] Archer is the 2028 Los Angeles Summer Olympic sponsor. This is our pilot jacket that we like to give to our biggest fans. So thank you, Molly. [45:09] For all your support, this is for you. You successfully [45:12] past the Archer [45:14] flight school, [45:15] You passed the simulator. Well, you crashed. [45:17] the simulators, but we'll give you the jacket anyways. [45:20] I'm learning, okay? [45:21] Thank you. Wow. [45:24] Very patriotic. Look at this. [45:26] Wow. [45:27] America, the Olympics, and Archer.

[45:31] Pretty good. Thank you. [45:34] Hey, it's Molly. If you enjoy our interviews, check out our newsletter, Sorcery.vc, where we deliver a once a week top deals and tech headlines email and also go deeper on our podcast interviews. Subscribe to Sorcery today. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple or wherever you listen. Link in description to sign up.